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EFF Sues President Bush Over Internet Surveillance

Aims to end illegal spying

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The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) has filed a lawsuit against President George W. Bush and others in his administration for the illegal surveillance of emails and telephone calls without a warrant.

The suit also names the National Security Agency (NSA), Vice President Dick Cheney, Cheney’s chief of staff David Addington, and former Attorney General and White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales.

Electronic Frontier Foundation

The lawsuit, Jewel v. NSA, is aimed at ending what the EFF says is "the NSA’s dragnet surveillance of millions of ordinary Americans and holding accountable the government officials who illegally authorized it."

Evidence in the case includes undisputed documents provided by former AT&T employee Mark Klein showing AT&T has routed copies of Internet traffic to a secret room in San Francisco controlled by the NSA.

EFF attorneys filed a suit against AT&T in 2006 alleging that US telecoms giants had opened its network to the NSA without warrants. This year Congress passed legislation giving telecommunications firms immunity from spying lawsuits. The case is now stalled in federal court.

"In addition to suing AT&T, we’ve now opened a second front in the battle to stop the NSA’s illegal surveillance of millions of ordinary Americans and hold personally responsible those who authorized or participated in the spying program," said Senior Staff Attorney Kevin Bankston.

"For years, the NSA has been engaged in a massive and massively illegal fishing expedition through AT&T’s domestic networks and databases of customer records. Our goal in this new case against the government, as in our case against AT&T, is to dismantle this dragnet surveillance program as soon as possible."
 

EFF Sues President Bush Over Internet Surveillance
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  • Guest

    You better get the ACLU involved as well! Someone needs to bitchslap this mutha fu*&a once and for all and take him down along with all his crooked a$$ cronies. And here we have yet another reason people to get these Republican pieces of sh&* outta office.

    • Dr. X

      Good new sue those bastards! But understand something that is important, you are not fighting with a few but a group of people in power. They can hang you out to dry and still make you feel wet. What I mean is the reason and efforts of their activities will be revealed in the next few years. Mark my word because they have just made the biggest move this past week to make this a reality.

  • Guest

    That law suit is rediculous. The President had the best interest of the people to think of. I can not say that I do not like the President because I dont know him personally. His decisions are another story. However;  in this particular situarion, whatever means he used to protect us should not matter as long as we all are safe from terrorists. Would you prefer to be spied upon for security reasons or be another victim of the the terrible tragedy that happened on September 11th?. Forget privacy when it comes to the safety and well being of our Nation. I have yet to understand why the Law would allow for anyone filing that type of suit against President Bush or anyone who is trying to protect the citizens. What do you have to hide that is more important than the safety of children, our families, our country? What is the compensation for this inconvenience? The charges should be reversed, asking the court to charge the plaintiffs and every one their counterparts for wasting our tax dollars on such foolishness. It sounds as though there is a great deal to hide from the government by someone and they are about to get caught. Give the people of this country credit for having common sense, if there was so much dissatisfaction with the way our safety is protected, the citizens of this country would have been in an uproar. They want to feel safe. You will never be able to please everyone not matter what is done. What’s most important right now is keeping living expenses paid, fuel in cars and daily meals. It has come to that for many of us. I am one of the millions of so called "Ordinary Americans" who could not care less about how we were protected. The safety of the country is what matters most.

    • Guest

      HAve you ever questioned why there was 432 jewsih employees did not show up at the Tower on the day of the plan attacks. Who is the terrorist really. are they within. lets get all the facts straight before we built fear from the outside when the terrorist really among us.

      • Guest

        Have you ever questioned why there were 432 Jewish employees did not show up at the TwoTowers on the day of the Planes attacks. Who are the terorist really? Are they within? Lets get the facts straight before we built fear from the outside when the terrorist really among us.

      • Guest

        Get off of here you idiot. 

        • nepenthe

          Only an idiot like you cannot see that 9/11 was a false-flag operation and a global PSY-OP.

    • Concern Citizen

      I do agree with WPN reader.  I am also an "Ordinary American" who can see how our President is doing his best to protect and safeguard our Country .  This Lawsuit is only to protect and benefit the Company, not us.    EFF is protecting their  privacy! 

    • Sandra K. Bock

      I think this lawsuit is great!!!!–You have to have court approval to tap into phone lines-read email—Bush isn’t trying to protect our country–Why didn’t he go after the real criminals-Bin Ladin then?  Is he getting paid not to go after this guy-from Bin’s family?-one wonders? Bush thinks he’s above the law–all you have to do is get the supreme court’s approval to wire-tap etc.-that’s all it would take—They don’t care about us–only their rich buddies and their families.  Good luck!!

      • Sandra K. Bock

        Additional comments–I think people are missing the point –  You can’t have people-the government going against our constitutional rights-to read our emails/wire-tap without court approval and I believe you have to got through Federal Courts not the Supreme Courts for approval—-This is what Hitler’ did-a totalitarian form of government—the government has all rights and we have none??

        • Guest

          You just said it: you have not rights! Where do you think you are living? You live in a totalitarian, despotic country and unfortunately all other countries are following your country’s footprints. I already said it: the trouble is that western dictatorship, being the most sophisticated, it is also the most difficult to spot. Some people call it "mild dictatorship".

      • Guest

        he didn’t go after bin laden because bush is in cahoots with bin laden’s family.  the bin ladens own much assets over here.  bush even got them out of here when 9/11 happened when ALL PLANES WERE SUPPOSEDLY GROUNDED!  bush also used to be best buds with saddam hussein.  how do you like those apples?

         

    • Guest

      somebody needs to sue him.  did you know that if obama and biden get elected they plan on doing a full investigation into this present administration?  these are the words i have been waiting to hear.  otherwise i was not going to vote at all.

      as a matter of fact they are already collecting data and building the file.  they will be going through it with a fine tooth comb looking to see if any laws were violated.  the video is on youtube. everybody knows bushboy violated law.  he even violated the constitution of the US.  him and cheney both have been wiping their shitty asses with the constitution since day 1.  according to bush the constitution is nothing but a piece of paper.  he should have been impeached 7 years ago.

      additionally, he does NOT have this country’s best interests at heart.  he couldn’t care less about this country.  he is only concerned about the O.I.L  aka "our special interests" and THAT is why we are in Iraq!

      HEY WEBPRO! thanks for letting us sound off saying it like we feel it.  we don’t get this chance too often.  any other forum you visit you have to sugar coat things.  here, we get to be RAW!  THANK YOU!!!!!!!

      • http://www.luxlending.com Guest

        Friend, I hate to disappoint you, but Obama and Binden are planning no such thing. If you really support Obama saying such a thing is dangerous and counter productive. I hope that Obama can still depend on your support, but the President and the Congress will have a lot more pressing issues to deal with than (unfortunately) investigating Bush. Unfortunately the people of America tacitly approved of every action that Bush authorized through his election not once, but twice. The only way to acheive justice for America is by kicking the bums out.

  • Guest

    I really feel sorry for all of you in the USA, you are so blind in fear that you can’t enjoy life in all its extension. You prefer to forget your personal freedom and give it to your so much called "president" and let him choose what is best not only for you but for the rest of the world! Well, guess what : WE, the rest of the world, are tired of your bullshit ! WE are tired that most wars are supported by your goverment and your fears!! Get real!! this is not about protecting you , the common citizen ! This is about protecting there economic status, their economic goals, not for you and your little children , not for your future or the future of your children but for there roll roys and their house in Malibu….please … give yourself a break from your own blindness.. and for Gods sake let the rest of the world live..your government have hurt enough .. it doesnt matter how much movies you guys make .. YOU ARE NOT THE HEROES…WE DONT WANT TO BE SAFE BY YOUR GOVERMENT

     

    • Guest

       

      Take a fucking chill pill man. And chances are I’d rather live here than whatever shit ass country you live in. Enjoy our movies.

      • Guest

        Thanks for proving his/her point so nicely. Fear of any other country than your own is what got you in this mess in the first place.

        You assumed he/she lived in a country worse than yours?? Let me remind you, you officially now live in a third world country. Enjoy the dwindling economoic mess YOUR goverment put you in! Woot!

        • Guest

          100% behind you with woot!!

          I’m so sick of the that trwirp with a speach impedamental acting as though he has any idea what’s going on and arrogantly making decisions for the rest of the world.

          It’s a sad thing when freedom is used to blind people.  Has no-one in the USA realized that freedom is merely an abstract concept?  You actually have to earn what you get and how do you do that when you are constantly shitting yourself about being blown up or shot or jailed for frug trafficking.

          Freedom doesn’t exist outside the confines of rules.

          YOU HAVE NO FREEDOM.  NO ONE DOES UNLESS THEY HAVE THE POWER TO BUY IT. 

          Live anywhere you want to – you cannot get away from the dick heads!!

  • Guest
  • Guest
  • Dyan

    I know everyone that visits Web Pro News are not able to read any info here because the "Comment Form" keeps popping up in front of your face. If visitors want to make a comment they will give one without being coerced or nudge by Web Pro News to do so. I find this constant popping up of the "comment form" very tacky and intrusive.

     

    Thanks — but no thanks to your "Comment Form".

    Dyan

     

     

     

     

    • Guest

      I don’t see the comment form "popping up".  I see the page is scrolling down TO the comments.   Just scroll back up to the top to read the article.  It is annoying, though.

  • Qvomos

    And it will be for a long time. And I mean the surveillance.
     We the alarming growth or flag-burning, dyke-marrying, illegal-alien harboring, Hamas-loving, ultra left wing commies, this republic has no other option but to circumvent some of the rules in other to protect this great country. Have you liberal crying lil bitches noticed that we are the only country in the western hemisphere or one of the few in the world who has not suffered an terrorist attack since 9-11? France, England, Germany, Spain, Canada, Mexico, Japan, India, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, China, … and the list goes on. They better be freaking not only reading my mail but listening to my phone calls. It makes me feel safer. You don’t like the way MY government does business, please do let the door hit you in the ass in the way out.

    • Guest

      Of course the terrorists who are responsible for the 9-11 bombings have never been found.

      Wonder why that is??

      • Anthio

        They have not been found because countries who sympathize with them are harboring them. The US can not march on every country to find them without proof. One other thing I would like to point out regarding the war in Iraq. There are satellite photos of several convoys of trucks hauling covered items, much resembling the shape of missiles, into Syria. This took place two months prior to us invading Iraq. Could it be that Sadam caught wind of the attack due to the protest of several individuals and moved his armement?

        • nepenthe

          The US march only when there is an economic opportunity to be spoiled and Iraq is full of oil. Said who that the US cannot go ahead without proof? There was no proof (and still there is not proof) of any WMD (Hans Blix said it) in Iraq and all the wars waged by US governments were and are illegal. I’m not saying that US government is the bad one, all governments are criminals but your is the most visible. Remember that in Europe GLADIO was discovered after 40 years. But look at you: 40 years after Kennedy assassination what do you know? And you tell us of pictures resembling missiles??? Are you taking a piss?

      • nepenthe

        Because it was the US government and Al-Qaeda is a branch of the CIA. They are in Afghanistan not to fight terrorism but to put their hands on a business worth more than 100 million $ a year

    • Chris Heiss

      “Those who sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither.” – Benjamin Franklin

  • sajohnson
    "As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air – however slight – lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."
    - Justice William O. Douglas
  • ILoveThisCountry

    Wake Up American!   This message is to the people on here that suggest that we need the government to protect us, why don’t you look to the lord instead of looking to a government that just robbed you and me to protect you.  It’s a better deal, God only ask for ten percent of your wages. Our government wants it all! When are you people going to wake up and relize that you’ve been conned by the neo-cons and they used faith and fear to get you to join their team.   When your higher taxes kick in maybe you’ll give up the Kool-Aid.   One more thing, whats the difference between giving money to the needy or giving money to wall street?  Not a damn thing it’s still welfare.  Here’s a thought instead of taking trillions of dollars and give to these fat cats on wall street, why don’t we let them fld and just give the 300 million citizens a million dollars each.  Do the math it makes better since.   Then we can kick start the economy and have some left over to buy gas and pay our electric bill.   It’s time for We The People To Take our country back!  If you don’t wake soon the door will hit you in the ass!   Thanks EEF for keeping the torch buring.  And lets hold these guys accountable.  Liberty is cool.

    ILTC

  • Guest

    how about all of you go back to school and learn how to spell!  then take an english writing course and learn how to get your message across without appearing as if you have nothing further than a third grade education.

    having said that i agree with everything you all have said.  it is unbelievable how one freakin’ man has the power to do this much damage to a whole country and the whole world.  NOBODY should have this much power.  while bush screws up the country and people’s lives, the rest of the government turns and looks the other way.  put them all in prison where  they belong.  then disband the electoral college to keep them from doing this to us again. 

    what?  you didn’t know?  YOUR VOTE MEANS DIDDLY SQUAT!.  your vote means absolutely NADA!  the electoral college outvotes us each and every time  no matter what WE THE PEOPLE vote.  the electoral college out votes you and puts in there who they want.  bushboy wasn’t voted in last time.  a judge put him in there.  all the funny shenanigans that went on in florida, where bush’s brother was governor at the time, and nobody batted an eye.  get rid of the electoral college and let the best man win by popular vote.  put everybody of the present administration behind bars.  they all are criminals.

    • Guest

      I love how you criticize them for not knowing how to spell when you do not know how to properly use capitals.

      • GuestArea51

        Were there any words in particular? misspellings

      • purple

        god forsaken americans dont look at the issue but irrelevant sentece and gramatical errors. we are talking about the future not mistakes in writing.

    • Anthio

      You are ill informed my friend. One man does not run this country. It is a composite of several areas of government that run this country. From the Senate, Congress and the Judicial branches as well as President Bush’s advisors that  hold the power. Irregardless to popular belief, one man can not and will not be able to single handedly run the amount of programs, information, domestic issues, foreign policy, military systems and policing of this large country. The economic situation in this country has always been blamed on a person in the presidential seat when in fact, most of the blame should be placed on the American people themselves. Spending, is the axle that rotates the financial wheel. If we as Americans do not spend, the economy drops, layoffs occur, unemployment rises. How can we therefore, blame the economy on one individual, or his cabinet members? Americans need to help themselves as well and stop relying so much on the Government.

      • Purple

        i am so delighted that you pointed this out because not many americans takes note of this. two thums up anthio

    • Guest

      Your punctuation sucks, plus before critizing everybody else grammar, be smart and look at the content, which is what really matter in a place like this. Formal education not necesarily  gives you common sense.

  • Anthio

    I understand that you believe there is open grounds for this lawsuit but before I would "jump on this bandwagon" I would like to see the proof of this taking place. If there is substantial evidence to persue such a suit and what that evidence may be.

    • http://www.bestcab.net Real Democrat

      ‘Evidence in the case includes undisputed documents provided by former AT&T employee Mark Klein showing AT&T has routed copies of Internet traffic to a secret room in San Francisco controlled by the NSA.’    <— common knowledge this stuff has been all over the media.  better check it out quick, cause the bandwagon is leaving the station.

      • Anthio

        What was contained in these emails? Threats to the United States, the Government, the people of the US? I’m sure if they routed such emails as those I write to family members they would be awfully bored. You misunderstand me I’m sure. I don’t appreciate my personal information being sent to someone else, however, on September 11, 2001, I doubt you would have found an American who would disagree with having emails sent to a section of San Francisco for scrutiny for possible terrorist information. We the people have set these new and current laws in motion using our own hands to allow the Government to seek out terrorism using any tools available to them. Why is everyone so surprised that emails are being routed to the NSA then?

  • Guest

    It is quite clear.  The problem is not with our administration or with our right to freedom…it is with the American people…90% are stupid!

    Reading this blog proves it.  90% of the posts here are people who are blatantly ignorant and have no freaking clue what they are talking about. 

    As Americans, maybe the majority of the people should re-educate themselves and find the ORIGINAL source of the information, and stop taking the word of their oh-so high crack dealer, the National Enquirer read, or from a far leaning political-wannabe site.

    Seek the truth.  Put down the crack pipe and go to the source.  Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, and New Yorik Daily are just a few to consider legit.

    Finally, most of you people sound like a bunch of ‘tards.  Remove your head from your ass, learn how to spell correctly and learn how to write a complete sentence.  Get educated, please!  If not, please do not procreate!

    • James Phifer

      I am a United States citizen, born in California. I am in a situation where I feel that I am on some type of security list or black list. I am legally disable and found out that a federal program I had applied for was tampered with. My enrollment date was changed by three years to keep me from receiving services in the program. The federal department responsible for over seeing it refused to administer its statutory duty to enforce the housing laws. I was basically told to go to federal court where I am know. The other problem is they poisoned me and made me sinsetive to chemicals in perfume oils and fragrances, hack my phones, notebook computers, and if I try to use a public library or law library they will uninstall the software I need like word or adobe acrobat or view and tamper with my files as I am producing them, they have also tried to do me other bodily harm besides the poisoning. And there is a lot more that is worse than what I have written here.
      My questions are, who has a right to murder someone for exercising their constitutional right to court access. Are there unpublished laws stating that certain citizens in the United States do not have full set of Constitutional Rights? When the police tell you they will not take a complaint and that you have lost your innocence? Does that mean the federal government is involved or its them or someone they fear?

    • Jim Levens

      Your five paragraph essay is far from an intelligent example of an educated American.  Please understand that you too are someone else’s idiot.

  • Guest

    This was the funniest catfight I ever read!

    • McCain for President

      Obviously this story was promoted by the liberal left, a side full of Nazi democrats and abortion-mongers.  America is too dumb to let the average citizen vote freely, which is why the Supreme Court had to step in and appoint President Bush to office in his first term instead of waiting for a Florida recount.

      President Bush has done a wonderful job of protecting Americans and building a stronger America.  Any Republican could point out how it was the Democrats that want more government, and more government spying.  McCain is the way to go, and will continue to lead this country the same way Bush has: with AUTHORITY.

      Go ahead and vote for Osama, so you can all get your healthcare at the expense of the real working Americans: upper-class.  Maybe if so many of you weren’t so busy doing drugs and having pre-marital sex we wouldn’t need healthcare reform.  Leave it to the Republican party to fix the problems Democrats created when they elected Clinton!

  • Carl D Sedillo

    When the opportunity to return to Colorado Springs presented itself, I told my wife; we’re gone. Since our return, I have contacted those I know live in the area. I am pleasantly surprised by the pride and dedication these retired Military express for the accomplishments of those serving in the Military today. And, somewhat taken back by their concurrent displeasure with the rhetoric of our National “politicos.”  

     
    We unanimously agree it matters little whether politicos are conservative (capitalists) or liberal (socialists) they continually declare they want change. What change? Who knows? Democrats habitually accuse Republicans of not having a plan, while Republicans accuse Democrats of not having a plan either. What plan? We cannot even agree on the nature of the plan to which they refer. We attributable our quandary to a phenomenon that is commonly called political double talk—which by the way always includes varying amounts of insincerity.
     
    We have also noted, few, very FEW, National Legislators have ever served in the Military—much less in combat. Moreover, today’s political oratory affirms they are  better qualified to manage a war than any general  officers, that as a minimum, have completed a basic branch course, an advanced branch course, the Command and General Staff College and The War College.  These school assignments are invariably interspersed between assignments to Military units where these officers develop and hone there combat and leadership skills.  We agree politicians are engaged in a sort of combat; but their struggle is solely for political power and has little to do with defending the Nation from Muslim terrorists and the treachery they inflict on their own, and oft attempt to inflicted on us. A disconnect definitely exists between those that profess they can negotiate with an enemy bent on destroying ALL” infidels” and those in our Military taking enemy fire. WE DO NOT consider beheading a viable option.
     
    Interestingly, we are unaware of a single instance where a politician, or a major Information media outlet (printed or electronic), has explained the following salient issues;
     
    1. Months after Christ was crucified, His Apostles set out to implement His mandate to spread His teachings in every corner of the earth. Most of those that lived in the Middle East, North Africa or Europe were converted to Christianity six hundred years before Mohammad was born. The majority remained devout Christians until conquered by Muslims. Their conquest began during the last half of the seventh century AD. Yet, collectively these areas are referred to as “Muslim”. Why? Because “infidels that opposed Muslim conquest were killed (particularly land owners) while others were enslaved or coerced into Islam. Muslim conquest was driven by a promise of land, women, and wealth as booty. Anything taken from an enemy as the result of combat is booty to be enjoyed by those that serve Allah and a contribution of 15% of the take to Islam. Before the end of the ninth century AD Muslims had plundered the Middle East and Africa destroying a very devout large Coptic (Christian) population in Egypt– among others.
    2. Muslims invaded Spain from North Africa in 711 AD. They remained there until 1492. The “Spanish Inquisition,” that began in 1478, was an effort to separate Christians from Muslims after 767 years of war and occupation; rather than an attempt to defame others, as we have been led to believe.
    3. During the 1200s, Mongols did more to impede the spread of Islam than previously occurred. Unfortunately, a by product was the collapse of the Roman Empire East centered at Constantinople. Constantinople (Istanbul) was the center of Orthodox Christianity that prevails even today in Eastern Europe. Mongol influence subsided as their leaders died.  
    4. In 1536, Muslim Armies were at the outskirts of Vienna. Without the aid of  Polish Cavalry their conquest might have succeeded and Europeans would probably be speaking Farsi or Arabic rather than the other various languages we associate with the region—thinking and politics would certainly be different if Muslim conquest had prevailed
    5. The Movies; “Four Feathers”, “Gunga Din,” and most recently “Lawrence of Arabia,” while exciting, actually depict, early twentieth century, efforts by the British to contain Muslim conquest in India and Pakistan to include the intervening land mass.
    6. What is occurring in the Middle East today is the continuance of the Muslim effort to remake the world in the image and likeness of Islam. Though the effort is driven by Islamofacists, it remains an objective and IS a tenant of Islam.
    7. America’s enemy is not America’s Military.
    8. After the war in South Vietnam, General Vo Nguyen Giap, the Commander of Viet Minh forces (VC) and North Vietnam Army Units (NVA) in South Vietnam, wrote in one of his several books; Without the help of John Kerry and Jane Fonda, they[the US] not we [Communists] would have won. General Giap is considered the authority on guerrilla and insurgency operations. His words may explain the similarity between many of this Country’s news releases and Islamofacists rhetoric against the U. S. It may also explain the left’s resistance to the Pentagon’s communications information mining project—Able Danger.
     
    This Country’s Military was decimated following President Nixon’s resignation and again during the Clinton years. Military General Hospitals have definitely been downgraded. Before George W. Bush was elected two of this County’s Military  
    General Hospitalswere closed and Walter Reed was converted to a “teaching hospital” for those entering a career in Military Medicine rather than The Facility dedicated to research and development of new methods for confronting the most serious of Military injuries. A very close friend of mine resigned from the Military while Chief of Neurosurgery at Brooks Army Medical Center in San Antonio. He affirmed funding had been cut so severely he no longer was providing acceptable services. He freely admitted he was patching the wounds of our Military rather than using his talent to enhance their ability to live full and useful lives. We are certain the latter applies to other areas of our Military.
     
    Democrats have criticized this Administration and our Military to the degree we may not be able to win the war against Islamic fascism. Instead of allowing our Military to win, the left in this Country has criticized and castigated every Military action in an effort to destroy several Presidents. It has also caused the rules of engagement to become so stringent our Military has and is taking unnecessary casualties. Instead of engaging the enemy at longer ranges using mortars, artillery, aircraft and missiles OUR MILITARY is continually forced to engage the enemy one on one. The resultant casualties we experience ARE NOT the fault of our Military Leaders, but of those that walk the halls of Congress and an Administration in shear panic of criticism from the information media. The socialist left in this Country and the elite media did the same to Presidents Truman (a Democrat) over Korea, to LBJ(a Democrat) over Vietnam, to Reagan as he set the stage for the tear down of the Iron Curtain, and now Bush over Afghanistan, Iran and all other places Islamofacists raise their heads. We agree the latter should be termed “political cannibalism.” At seventy-five and older, we are personally aware of the scorching our Presidents have taken from the left every time they confront a foreign totalitarian state.
     
    There is little difference between the propaganda that emanated from behind the Iron Curtain and that coming today from our left leaning legislators. During the mid-sixties, I served as Secretary to the General Staff at Headquarters, United States Army Europe and Seventh Army Troops. Each day the Commander received translations of significant coverage appearing in East European newspapers, on radio and on TV. The thought anyone would believe the USSR’s diatribe was laughable—as laughable as statements professing “Bush was responsible for 911”—and other similar diatribe. While the USSR strived fruitlessly to retain power by deriding the West then; it is obvious the left is bent on ceding this Country’s military and political preeminence to whomever today.
     
    Our single overwhelming fear is that our Military Volunteers will eventually andregretfully acknowledge our political leaders are putting Party and personal gain ahead of Country. The resultant is the degradation of our professional and willing Military. 
     
    Our Military Cemeteries are crowded with the headstones of those that gave their full measure. We believe the left is using each new headstone as an object for ridicule rather than acknowledging these headstones are the ultimate symbol of devotion for Country—yours and ours.
     
    Carl D. Sedillo
    The Perspective of Several Retired Veterans                                                   
    When the opportunity to return to Colorado Springs presented itself, I told my wife; we’re gone. Since our return, I have contacted those I know live in the area. I am pleasantly surprised by the pride and dedication these retired Military express for the accomplishments of those serving in the Military today. And, somewhat taken back by their concurrent displeasure with the rhetoric of our National “politicos.”  
     
    We unanimously agree it matters little whether politicos are conservative (capitalists) or liberal (socialists) they continually declare they want change. What change? Who knows? Democrats habitually accuse Republicans of not having a plan, while Republicans accuse Democrats of not having a plan either. What plan? We cannot even agree on the nature of the plan to which they refer. We attributable our quandary to a phenomenon that is commonly called political double talk—which by the way always includes varying amounts of insincerity.
     
    We have also noted, few, very FEW, National Legislators have ever served in the Military—much less in combat. Moreover, today’s political oratory affirms they are  better qualified to manage a war than any general  officers, that as a minimum, have completed a basic branch course, an advanced branch course, the Command and General Staff College and The War College.  These school assignments are invariably interspersed between assignments to Military units where these officers develop and hone there combat and leadership skills.  We agree politicians are engaged in a sort of combat; but their struggle is solely for political power and has little to do with defending the Nation from Muslim terrorists and the treachery they inflict on their own, and oft attempt to inflicted on us. A disconnect definitely exists between those that profess they can negotiate with an enemy bent on destroying ALL” infidels” and those in our Military taking enemy fire. WE DO NOT consider beheading a viable option.
     
    Interestingly, we are unaware of a single instance where a politician, or a major Information media outlet (printed or electronic), has explained the following salient issues;
     
    1. Months after Christ was crucified, His Apostles set out to implement His mandate to spread His teachings in every corner of the earth. Most of those that lived in the Middle East, North Africa or Europe were converted to Christianity six hundred years before Mohammad was born. The majority remained devout Christians until conquered by Muslims. Their conquest began during the last half of the seventh century AD. Yet, collectively these areas are referred to as “Muslim”. Why? Because “infidels that opposed Muslim conquest were killed (particularly land owners) while others were enslaved or coerced into Islam. Muslim conquest was driven by a promise of land, women, and wealth as booty. Anything taken from an enemy as the result of combat is booty to be enjoyed by those that serve Allah and a contribution of 15% of the take to Islam. Before the end of the ninth century AD Muslims had plundered the Middle East and Africa destroying a very devout large Coptic (Christian) population in Egypt– among others.
    2. Muslims invaded Spain from North Africa in 711 AD. They remained there until 1492. The “Spanish Inquisition,” that began in 1478, was an effort to separate Christians from Muslims after 767 years of war and occupation; rather than an attempt to defame others, as we have been led to believe.
    3. During the 1200s, Mongols did more to impede the spread of Islam than previously occurred. Unfortunately, a by product was the collapse of the Roman Empire East centered at Constantinople. Constantinople (Istanbul) was the center of Orthodox Christianity that prevails even today in Eastern Europe. Mongol influence subsided as their leaders died.  
    4. In 1536, Muslim Armies were at the outskirts of Vienna. Without the aid of  Polish Cavalry their conquest might have succeeded and Europeans would probably be speaking Farsi or Arabic rather than the other various languages we associate with the region—thinking and politics would certainly be different if Muslim conquest had prevailed
    5. The Movies; “Four Feathers”, “Gunga Din,” and most recently “Lawrence of Arabia,” while exciting, actually depict, early twentieth century, efforts by the British to contain Muslim conquest in India and Pakistan to include the intervening land mass.
    6. What is occurring in the Middle East today is the continuance of the Muslim effort to remake the world in the image and likeness of Islam. Though the effort is driven by Islamofacists, it remains an objective and IS a tenant of Islam.
    7. America’s enemy is not America’s Military.
    8. After the war in South Vietnam, General Vo Nguyen Giap, the Commander of Viet Minh forces (VC) and North Vietnam Army Units (NVA) in South Vietnam, wrote in one of his several books; Without the help of John Kerry and Jane Fonda, they[the US] not we [Communists] would have won. General Giap is considered the authority on guerrilla and insurgency operations. His words may explain the similarity between many of this Country’s news releases and Islamofacists rhetoric against the U. S. It may also explain the left’s resistance to the Pentagon’s communications information mining project—Able Danger.
     
    This Country’s Military was decimated following President Nixon’s resignation and again during the Clinton years. Military General Hospitals have definitely been downgraded. Before George W. Bush was elected two of this County’s Military  
    General Hospitalswere closed and Walter Reed was converted to a “teaching hospital” for those entering a career in Military Medicine rather than The Facility dedicated to research and development of new methods for confronting the most serious of Military injuries. A very close friend of mine resigned from the Military while Chief of Neurosurgery at Brooks Army Medical Center in San Antonio. He affirmed funding had been cut so severely he no longer was providing acceptable services. He freely admitted he was patching the wounds of our Military rather than using his talent to enhance their ability to live full and useful lives. We are certain the latter applies to other areas of our Military.
     
    Democrats have criticized this Administration and our Military to the degree we may not be able to win the war against Islamic fascism. Instead of allowing our Military to win, the left in this Country has criticized and castigated every Military action in an effort to destroy several Presidents. It has also caused the rules of engagement to become so stringent our Military has and is taking unnecessary casualties. Instead of engaging the enemy at longer ranges using mortars, artillery, aircraft and missiles OUR MILITARY is continually forced to engage the enemy one on one. The resultant casualties we experience ARE NOT the fault of our Military Leaders, but of those that walk the halls of Congress and an Administration in shear panic of criticism from the information media. The socialist left in this Country and the elite media did the same to Presidents Truman (a Democrat) over Korea, to LBJ(a Democrat) over Vietnam, to Reagan as he set the stage for the tear down of the Iron Curtain, and now Bush over Afghanistan, Iran and all other places Islamofacists raise their heads. We agree the latter should be termed “political cannibalism.” At seventy-five and older, we are personally aware of the scorching our Presidents have taken from the left every time they confront a foreign totalitarian state.
     
    There is little difference between the propaganda that emanated from behind the Iron Curtain and that coming today from our left leaning legislators. During the mid-sixties, I served as Secretary to the General Staff at Headquarters, United States Army Europe and Seventh Army Troops. Each day the Commander received translations of significant coverage appearing in East European newspapers, on radio and on TV. The thought anyone would believe the USSR’s diatribe was laughable—as laughable as statements professing “Bush was responsible for 911”—and other similar diatribe. While the USSR strived fruitlessly to retain power by deriding the West then; it is obvious the left is bent on ceding this Country’s military and political preeminence to whomever today.
     
    Our single overwhelming fear is that our Military Volunteers will eventually andregretfully acknowledge our political leaders are putting Party and personal gain ahead of Country. The resultant is the degradation of our professional and willing Military. 
     
    Our Military Cemeteries are crowded with the headstones of those that gave their full measure. We believe the left is using each new headstone as an object for ridicule rather than acknowledging these headstones are the ultimate symbol of devotion for Country—yours and ours.
     
    Carl D. Sedillo
     
  • Guest

    If we just ignore the violation of our constitutional rights, the government will continue to rob us more and more.  They will take away our gun rights, then our guns, then even our armed forces.  Then the UN will enforce the new laws. Any dissent will be considered a hate crime.  Then, to further control us, they will take away all cash and credit cards and implant chips in us so they will have complete control over us… what we buy and sell and earn and eat (and if we earn or eat). The ball has been rolling for a long time now.  Just visit Verichip’s website to find out about the chips.  Of course the chips will make our lives so much better, right? Or search for NRA videos on youtube to see how England and Canada are being disarmed.  The US is next.  Already the vast majority of our armed forces are overseas, while FEMA is busy constructing lots of American concentration camps, oops, I mean, disaster emergency centers. (Seach for that one on the internet.) There are probably more ostriches (sticking their heads in the sand) in the US than even the rest of the world.  We want our MTV, our South Park, and other tv opiates.  Many of us dont care about losing our rights, especially the youngest among us who are being carefully programmed by the public school system.  Obama wants to train our youth to report on their parents just like Hitler youth did.  You can find out about that on the internet also.  He has his own code words for his plans.  He calls it his "civilian national security force".  Not that anyone else in high level government can be trusted.  Enjoy your remaining freedoms while you still can, if you even care about them.  You won’t have too many freedoms left as time goes on.  Most Americans probably won’t care, because papa government is there to "protect" you, so you can feel you don’t need any rights any longer.  Wait til they start feeding you soylent green.  You probably will love the taste of it.

  • former SBCIS emp. (now its ATT)

    i was told stories about the gov forcing SBCIS to allow them access to install some large scale packet sniffing equipment in thier pops very shortly after 911. for those of you who think this is ok, then maybe you should also send copies of all your personal email, webpages, regular mail and telephone conversations to them after you read them for inspection. its a blatent invasion of privacy.

    furthermore, at the time i heard that if they were not allowed access to the pop that they were going to shut it down. ( you nah sayers now should think , gov says:" ill read your mail, and sniff your web traffic or you wont have any!" )

    furthermore, im pretty sure it was not just limited to one pop. i heard it was most of the mega pops we had at the time, and not just email traffic. granted, its way to much information for them to process anyways so im sure they were looking only for certain patterns, but its been several years now. you can bet that other agencies are tapped into thier equipment as well as searching for whatever floats thier boat.  if this kind of misuse of authority is allowed to happen, we should also let them put rfid in all of us and our children, so they can at any moment track where we go, and who we associate with as its a logical next step.

     

    sue em good. get thier crap out of those pops. and BTW your stupid to assume that its was only one ISP that they have thier traffic sniffing devices on.  i wondered for years when this would get out as only a very few people know about it internally to ATT.

  • Guest

    Okay. So, if the EFF wins, who pays?

    Wouldn’t the President and all his men be covered by a kind of "ommissions and errors" insurance related to the office in which they serve? So, the government would pay, not the individuals — which means that you and I would pay because we pay taxes.

    So, the EEF wants to punish the American people because they are being spied on. The idea of suing someone is to recoup losses, but there are not likely any identifiable losses in this case. So, the idea of a suit here is to punish and to set a precedent. And because those who are being sued are in the service of the American people, the government will pay for the lawyers to defend the President, and if they lose, will pay the judment costs, as well.

    And who will they pay them to? The EEF is likely suing on behalf of Americans, so the EEF shouldn’t be the recipient of funds. Should they? Shouldn’t those who were being targeted get the bulk of the funds if the EEF suit wins? But wait a minute! Aren’t the targets of  such survelence generally criminals and terrorists?

    This whole thing is jus too weird. Watch it get thrown out of court.

  • Guest

    looks like its already been thrown out. for reasons of it hurting national security, it also cannot tell you much more then that for the same reason. they basicly are just allowing it to continue unchecked even though its proven to be illegal and unconstitional.

    read this

    http://www.eff.org/files/802-MTD.pdf

     

    • http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6952102263921897950 plat0

      Thank you for this somewhat pertinent link ( whoever you are ) :

      http://www.eff.org/files/802-MTD.pdf

      As usual people are so busy walking their egos that the world moves on unchallenged.

      Did anyone here notice this link after it was posted?

      http://www.eff.org/files/802-MTD.pdf

      Hello America?

  • Randy

    Thats crapola!

  • Guest

    Ok a court is letting a company speak its mind in court,  against the decisions of the President of the USA and it administration?  So? That is the power of Free Speech at its max.

    Let Freedom Ring  He did not have another choice, probably other than recertfiy every American and Foreigner in this country as on the Good List.

    And what if one those billion changes from the Good List to the Bad List?

    Maybe a Better way will come of this challenge.

     

  • Carl

    Hi I am not an American, but I love America, the country and the people!  Infact it is my favorite playground, "did I say Las Vegas??" lol  I will say,  I am nothing short of appalled at the way the US Government and major corporations have turned beautiful America into a paranoid police state just short of martial law! 

    ie: ThePatriot Act was signed blind by US Congress 7 days after 911 how could such a document undermining of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights be written in 7 days?  Not even!!!!!  It was already written months before 911.  Watch out friends and neighbours your freedom is being dissolved bit by bit!  I would invite everyone to watch the documentary entitled The Greatest Lie Ever Sold (Anthony J Hilder) it is a wake up call for the American public and the world!   AJ Hilder is a Talk Show Host, Investigative Journalist and War Correspondent and American citizen no less!!  It is available almost everywhere including You Tube!! Check it out!!! 

    If you do watch it and some of the other documentaries there, everything said can be checked out and is of public record and true!  These documentaries will shake you and you might not even believe what is said in them, but like I said public record is available to verify everything questionable!!

    I hope that the EFF wins the suite it would a be a decisive victory and a start to recover the freedoms and rights for the people who make up great America and other countries world wide!! IMHO

  • Col. S. Thompson – U.S. Army, Ret.

     Thank you, Mike, for the article.
     
    Also for the opportunity, once again, to see in plain site the level of ignorance that is so pervasive in this country – which, of course,  is the real and true threat to our democracy above all else. With the exception of, perhaps 3 to 5 reply posts here, the majority of the responses clearly show what is most dangerous to our national security, freedoms and liberties (as set forth and granted us within our Constitution and Bill of Rights)- is blind and misinformed ignorance, … something the Founding Fathers feared and warned us of most of all.

    The level of inanity, blitheness, disoriented and incorrigible disdain for what is, to most intelligent people, a clear and unambiguous issue clearly illustrates why our Founding Fathers feared such ignorance and warned us that this would ultimately be the greatest threat to democracy – substantially a far greater threat than any external enemy could ever be.
     
    Sadly, this is evidence of a "House Divided Within Itself", and, as history has proven time and again such a house is destined to fall. This both saddens me and fills me with much dread to realize these are the neighbors in which I share this neighborhood (i.e., nation). In their time the fathers of this nation had good reason to worry, and understandably so,… after all, back then the majority of the citizens were uneducated in the extreme – very few even had a basic elementary level of education. But to see this same level of ignorance displayed today – where presumably most citizens have at least a rudimentary high school level of education – well,… I frankly believe our Founding Fathers would be as outright terrified as I am today. Not terrified of foreign enemies, imagined or real, but terrified of their own fellow citizens. In a social and political climate like this here today, … who the hell needs foreign enemies? Ignorance is more of a certain death to our democracy than any other factor or force.
     
    That being said,… I wanted to make some relevant points in response to this article (and, although probably fruitless and wasteful of time, in response to the readers and some of those who have previously posted their response here).
     
    1. The purpose of lawsuits or court actions against a purported wrong is not merely or exclusively to enact punishments or financial remuneration,… it is about seeking JUSTICE and protection of rights and liberties that are meant to apply to, or benefit,  all citizens – yes, even for the ignorant or ill informed ones.
     
    This particular lawsuit filed by the EEF is not about seeking money, it is about seeking justice and about protecting all of our civil rights – as granted us by the Bill of Rights. For those who may not know what the Bill of Rights is, it is that little – and apparently troublesome to many here – addendum document our founding fathers wisely attached to the U.S. Constitution. It is, in fact, the document that both enacts and gives power to our Constitution, it is the very heart of it. Without the Bill off Rights, and it’s actual application in daily governance, democracy as we know it does not exist in this nation. Within that troublesome little document are provisions and mechanisms in which we, the citizens of this nation, have the means to hold our government accountable and of assuring our rights are both protected and enacted upon.
     
    One such is the right to vote, but it is not the only means provided us by this document to hold our government accountable,… we also have the right to use the judicial system as a means of redress as well. The courts are not there merely to either punish or reward (monetarily speaking) the judicial branch of government also exists a a means of checks and balances against the possibility of abuse and tyranny by the other branches of government (legislative and administrative) as well. In fact, a careful study of the Constitution (which many here in this forum I would suspect have never done, if they have even ever read it once, let alone studied it) easily shows the primary purpose of the judicial branch is to PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF THE CITIZENRY AGAINST UNBRIDLED ABUSES OF POWER AND DENIAL OF OUR CIVIL LIBERTIES BY THE GOVERNMENT,..  not simply as a tool of punishment as so many in this country erroneously believe. The purpose of the lawsuit by the EFF is simply exercising this right on all our behalf and is properly using this means of recourse as granted by our Constitution to seek justice. It has nothing to do with money.
     
    2. The U.S. Constitution also clearly specifies and determines that our military forces are to be answerable to and under the control of our CIVILIAN LEADERS, those folks elected by the citizens of this nation, first the President and Commander & Chief and then the U.S. Congress, not the other way around. There is good reason for that. With all due respect to many fine military leaders,
    myself included among them, the fact is the military’s prime focus and concern is warfare, in fighting wars in defense of our nation and not in representing the people of the nation in civil matters. Military leadership is trained in the arts of war and defense, not in representing the will of the people or managing a nation. Military leaders are assigned and promoted to their duties, they are not elected or chosen by popular vote of the people, so therefore are not intrinsically or inherently especially qualified or skilled at representing the needs and concerns of the citizenry. They are skilled at managing armies and conducting war,… very different things from successfully managing or administering a nations business or citizenry. Yes, some military leaders can, and have, done so, but by and large military training does not include managing the complexities and needs of a free citizenry.
     
    Further, our founding fathers well understood, as history has proven time and again, that when the military is not under the control of the civilian populace and their elected representatives real democracy is non-existent, tyranny is almost always the end result instead. Anyone who has served in the military knows full well the structure and culture therein is not democratic, it is autocratic in nature, by necessity,… it is the very opposite of democracy. In a true democracy military leaders can not be allowed to control the nation or the nation’s interests. Like it or not, and I know many former fellow officers who think they know better than our elected officials (and perhaps some may) who do not especially like it, for better or worse, it is those freely elected officials who make the decisions on our behalf in a democracy, as it should be.
     
    3. The EFF is NOT A COMPANY, it is a FOUNDATION, a diverse composium of various interests, .. thousands and thousands of ordinary private citizens, companies, researchers, developers, educators, students and many others whose primary interest is in protecting and promoting the freedoms to open and free communication around the world in the electronic age,… just as the name suggests "ELECTRONIC FREEDOM FOUNDATION". It primarily consists of volunteers, most of which work donating their own time and effort with no financial incentives or compensations whatsoever. Their underlying goals and concerns have nothing at all to do with money. The EFF operates only due the volunteers and donations the Foundation receives,…. it is not a for profit business of any kind. In fact, it is most often considered the enemy by many corporations, companies and governments who feel none of us should have the right to free and open communication without being either taxed, controlled or having to pay for the means and rights to communicate freely among ourselves.
    In fact, it could easily be argued that if it were not for the work and efforts of the EFF, among others, none of us posting within this forum would be able to do so freely without censorship or without having to pay some company a hefty fee to do so or actually being unable to do so at all due to some government’s restrictions on doing so (as is the case in many countries, in fact).
     
    4. For those here who are so willing to cede their rights and liberties for the incorrect and false perception or feeling of "security and safety", not to mention everyone else’s rights to boot, rather than belittling and deriding those of us who hold our rights as sacred and are willingly to speak out or act to defend those rights,…. stupidly imploring us to go live somewhere else,… why don’t you go live somewhere else instead,… like, perhaps, some other totalitarian country where no one in the citizenry has any such rights, if you like that so well.
     
    Please, just stop exposing and imposing your own ignorance, bigotry’s and delusions  upon the rest of us who do value our freedoms – actions which only serve to drive this wonderful nation and it’s people closer and ever closer into tyranny and totalitarianism,…. do us all a favor and go find somewhere to live that suits your own visions of absolute recidivist impoverishment of liberty. Democracy doesn’t need the kind of help you are so willingly to provide,… I understand countries like Myanamar, China and Saudi Arabia, among others, have a place for you,… the rest of us who value freedom will gladly chip in to pay your passage. Otherwise, please educate yourself, stop being puppets* and mindless parrots* of divisive, derisive and party-line rhetoric and mind-numbing diatribe.
     
    Ignorance is not a flag to proudly wave around as if it was something everyone should strive to achieve. Nor is being an automaton or goose-stepping jackboot something virtuous and honorable. Anyone can be trained or conditioned for those things,… real free thought and true freedom requires effort. Some might do well to try it sometime.
     
    * : No offense to actual parrots or puppets intended.

    • crowmd

       Wow some comment,and I wholehearteldy agree. And thank you for defending our constitution something this administration has profoundly trounced upon. A true patriot is someone who sides with freedom and not with government if need be,something the populace has sadly overlooked.

       The EFF is OUR organisation,it represents US. It stands for one of the few..organizations that still stand up for our rights as a U.S. citizen against our government and big business.And our government’s reaction to it and the media’s reaction should spell out how far we have lost the war.

       Virtually no newsplay on the major networks about this story and it is typical.Just now at this moment the Bush administration is pushing for an expanded police power’s act to be signed before Oct. 2. Just like the new federal organisation that the Whitehouse wants in response to this week’s wall- street crash.

       The administration is looking for more power to create another branch of government outside of jurisdiction and congressional oversight like ,homeland security,or the re-vamping of the pentagon,or the expanding of the miltary act,or the patriot act,and now an wall street act.

      This is what the nazi’s did,and communist russia.You think it can’t happen here..look again.The nazi party in there rise to power first took over the church because it was the easiest .Then the Banking institutions,then the rest of the government.Only the miltary has already been taken over.

      How many military whistleblowers has there been since Bush took office? Ask yourself and look it up.We have been taken over by corporate thugs from the inside,and this is only the begining.

  • Guest

    WASTE OF TIME, ANOTHER LAWSUIT TO WASTE TAXPAYER MONEY. YES SPYING IS RETARDED AND PROBABLY NOSY WORKERS IN THE TELECOM INDUSTRY HAVE A LOT OF JUICY INFO, IF YOU ARENT DOING ANYTHING ILLEGAL SO WHAT IF THEY KNOW WHO YOU ARE BLINKING :p

  • Qvomos

    Very well spoken Col. Thompson.
    However your dissertation of the duties of the Government and its limitations of power before the people of this great nation have failed to impress me. And as a law abiding citizen of this country I have the right to chose wether I agree or not with the way the Government conducts its business when it comes to protect the land and its inhabitants.
    Lets not forget that the Founding Fathers meant for our social order to a Republic and not an anarchy called "Democratic" party and its constituents such as we see today.
    I have to side with Mr.

    • purple

      why not address the subject the candidate address and leave personal life alone. It is only a fool that uses emotion in his judgement. If you dont like a candidate, dont attack his religion or beliefs or condem the individual moreover he has a right that you do and aggitating his religion means you are worst than he is because you, first of all are not upholding the constituition we live by and secondly infering on just a stereotype that doesnt even make sense so buckle up and be part of the change not the problem

    • Barry C. Johns

       Sadly, "in just a few words", Qvomos, you have "proved" absolutely nothing other than:

      A. Your own level of ignorance of the facts. What you have stated in your comments as facts are nothing more than contrived conjecture and baseless diatribe,… much of which is easily proven to be just the opposite of what you claim,…. false, that is to say.

      B. Your own level of ignorance.

      C. Your own level of ignorance.

      D. Your own level of ignorance and bigotry.

      E. That such levels of ignorance truly know no bounds.

      F. That you are, indeed, the very type of person our Founding Father’s feared the most, above and beyond any foreign enemy, by far.

      G. Your and Mr. Sedillo’s ways of thinking would have made you both excellent S.S. Officer’s within the Third Reich,… your words could have been lifted directly from many speeches made by Adolph and company, verbatim, and ad nasuem. The reasoning and justifications you have used to illustrate why the citizens of this nation should lay down in docility and just allow unfettered erosion of our civil liberties in the name of "security" are almost, word for word, precisely the rhetoric used by Adolph Hitler in many speeches during the 1930′s. Instead of the word "Jewish", you merely replace it with the word "Muslim",… otherwise one could barely tell the difference. It is always in the supposed cause of "security" that all totalitarian governments wrest power away from the people and gain permanent foothold.

      H. Your ill advised admonishments against "spending too much time studying the Constitution", are not only dangerous, they are patently contrary to the reality. The problem in this country is NOT THAT TOO MANY PEOPLE STUDY THE CONSTITUTION, but, in fact, that VERY FEW IN THIS COUNTRY ACTUALLY DO STUDY THE CONSTITUTION. 

      I. Hiding behind and using religious beliefs to promote or propagate hatred, bigotry and actual attacks against those who do not believe as you do, not only denigrates the true value of religions, it also makes you no different than those you claim to oppose. Simply exchanging the word "Christian" for "Muslim"  or  "jew" or "Liberal" or any other does not validate your arguments or so called beliefs, it simply makes you just as much an extremist as those you so readily condemn. Extremism is extremism, and is always an evil, regardless of which religious skirts you hide behind and subvert to justify your own perverse thinking and agendas. Following your reasoning and logic, makes you absolutely no different than any other extremist, be they Muslim, or whatever. The biggest evils always reside hidden within the shadowy confines of religious or nationalist zeal. And, as history has proven time and again, the greatest evils of all are always wrought upon us when the two are combined.

      J. Your own level of ignorance and inability to think for yourself,… all you have said is nothing more than a parroting of other’s words, a diatribe of nonsense not even of your own making, just repeating words of extremism many fascists and zealots before you have uttered. 

      K. According to your assertions, our founding fathers were a bunch of idiots and liberals, incapable of foresight and any wisdom regarding the realities and challenges this nation may face any time in the future. Well, thank goodness for you, and everyone like you, for these liberal idiots,… if it were not for them, you would not have the freedom today to freely express your views, however extremist they may be. If you had spent any time actually studying – and trying to actually understand what it means – this liberal Constitution, you would realize that our founding father’s had far more foresight and wisdom than virtually anyone today gives them credit for. They saw and understood all too well the dangers of extremist and ignorant thinking,… but, alas, they were far too liberal to enact any prohibitions against it. 

      Then, again, maybe you are correct,…. perhaps the founding fathers and all the so called liberals after them were wrong,… perhaps they should have limited our rights and liberties, especially the freedom of speech, to only those with enough proven intelligence to think for themselves and those who have actually studied and understood our Constitution. Keep on promoting your type of extremist views, and perhaps, sooner than you think, you will get that type of nation.

      But, why wait,… there are countries in this world that already have the type of society and governance you so readily and obviously lust for,… one such country is called "North Korea". I am sure they would have a ready made position within that government tailor made just for you,…. probably shoveling something you are so adept at already shoveling.

  • Joe

    The Patriot Act was put together before 9/11.

    Washington DC Area Military Leaders suddenly started to Restrict Access to the DC Area Army Bases including Fort Meade which houses “No Such Agency” just 3 weeks before 9/11. These Army bases had been Open Bases (Unrestricted Access) since World War 2. Why?

    This Drag Net of Email Traffic, and IP Address Grabbing IN NO WAY have anything to do with National Security.

    The US Government is moving towards a New World Order controlled by the Elite mainly: The Bilderberg Group.

    This Drag Net is nothing more than a ploy for the US Government to get some kind of Dirt on every American so they can Black Mail them if they do not comply with the NWO Movement. Just ask X-SEC Chairman, Mr. Spitzer who was FRAMED due to an illegal wire tap created by the Bush Administration who wanted Spitzer out of the way because he was considered to be a “Real Enforcement Agent”, and would not allow for idiotic Financial Genocide that has brought this Country to a 800 Billion Tax Payer Bail Out by Bilderberg Paulson and Bilderberg Bernanke. This very form of illegal activity (wire tapping) that they used to frame Spitzer, they will eventually use on YOU if you do not comply with them. Never mind that NONE of the CEO’s and other Elite have been prosecuted who are tied directly to: Sub Prime Debacle, Phony Rating of Securities that were truly worthless, Predatory Lending Practices, Creative Accounting, etc, etc.

    For the Non Believers, they just need to go to: INFOWARS.COM to get a REAL Education about what is really going on with the Government, and the Elite in this Country, and in the World. What they have in store for you isn’t pretty.

    The Non Believers just need to answer one question correctly: Why is there all of this Spying on Americans going on with Security Cameras everywhere, Government listening in on your Phone Conversations, Email, etc.? Meanwhile, they have not been able to Close the BORDER between the US and Mexico in Eight Years???

    Let’s see, the Government is concerned about our National Security to the point where they want to Spy on every American, but yet, the Border is still wide open between the US and Mexico: Illegal Mexicans and Central American Gang Members are Crossing the Border in RECORD NUMBERS.

    It does not take a Rocket Scientist to see through this Smoke Screen. WAKE UP!

     

  • WGP

    Im sorry I cant spell,if it realy matters A$$ Ho*@!  But I do know what time it is and have for many years. we scard the  crap out of them in the 60s, The institutions that grab for more power every day, the rest of the government that stays!  No matter who wins the election. They learned to go slow, Now our youngsters are being traned up to conform and forget the power we inherited from the creator and was affermed by our new nation with the documents that lay out the direction that authority flows from! our birthright! the power is ours, the power of JUST-US and its our duty to mantain this power only letting it flow from US in a limited way to OUR GOVERNMENT so that we can better cooperate with each other acting as one nation. we still hold onto it and only renew that little lease of power every four years. this allows a instatution to be created and mantained so WE CAN deal with other powers,big and small in matters of trade,treties,moneys and of war or peace!! this may be a simple understanding of what time it is. but its the truth  and in keeping of the duty that was set upon US by our forefathers. we have let ourselfs be lulled into a position that we may not recover from! WE droped the ball. and now need to recover what has sliped away from US in any manor set aside for US to use, that would include  the final raw power of any jury of our peers! also we have the appsolute RIGHT to address the courts for redress and relief from a government that has overstepped the laws & limets that WE bind ourselfs together with! The Rule Of LAW that is for JUSTUS. its over due. act now! we may have only this small slice of time in history to reclaim what is OURS. Its the jueys duty to judge the law as well as the evidence and how that law may be implemented. ITs on Everyone to stand up  for our civile rights at every turn ! never even hint that you might want to allow the law to be over stepped……love this land and never forget thos befor us. WGP

  • Simon Elliott

    I’m English not American but do have a fondness for the USA. I have spent a considerable amount of time there and enjoyed all of it – although felt threatened when asking a Police Officer for directions!

    However, the bottom line is quite simply, if it’s illegal, it’s illegal. The American constitution is not just important for Americans - it’s important for the ENTIRE world. For setting both a standard as well as world security.

    If the American government is (again) breaking the law they MUST be held accountable, you or I would be! America is in a very dangerous place of potentially losing a lot of respect from the ‘outside’ world for it’s inhumane and bullying tactics which it imposes upon it’s own people as well as other nations.

    America, ‘The land of the free’. Great irony.

     

    • http://www.gallagherwebsitedesign.com Business Website Design

      I’m really happy to hear that from someone outside of the US – that the American constitution is important for the entire world. Because it is just as you said, it’s the example of what a free nation and land should be. But unfortunately as you know we have fallen by the way side. I can only hope, wish and do all I can to help in restoring America back to what it was founded upon.

  • David

    I support our government and most importantly our troops.  But I applaud this lawsuit.  It’s also a great example of the American way of life at it’s best.  A private citizen can sue their government;  that probably won’t be happening in Iran, China, N. Korea or most other countries.  If nothing else, this suit affirms the rights of private citizens and should be supported, perhaps, on those grounds alone.

    Congress simply cannot be counted upon to "watchdog" the President and the many agencies under their mutual control.  However, they are accountable to the American public for their actions or, for making sure their actions are legal.  This lawsuit will do nothing to undermine their jobs but it will likely force a review that is LONG overdue.  Good job EFF.

    Like the cop will always say to the bad guy:  "If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear".  Let’s see how our government’s leaders stand up to that advice.  We have nothing to lose and literally, everything to gain. 

    I support the EFF’s suit.

    • nepenthe

      Great story, honor to the EFF for all the good things they have been fighting for. Bush and his entourage should be going to jail for ALL the crimes committed against humanity but this would happen only in the ideal world. In the real world let us see who is going to win this diatribe between EFF and Bush&co. As David says, a private citizen  in the States (or more in general in western countries)  can sue the government, something you could not do in countries where human rights are violated constantly like China, Iran and all other countries under totalitarian regime. True but what about the declaration of  war to Iraq bypassing  U.N. Security Council and the fact that GUANTANAMO IT IS STILL IN OPERATION?  No lawsuit in the world, not even  the Supreme Court of Justice of US has been able to shut down that neo-nazi ‘Lager’ AKA Guantanamo Bay. David do not look further to find violation of human rights! Do we believe to be in the State of Right? It is rather the contrary, the Right of State. Very naive to  believe that western countries are immune to despotism. Western dictatorship is so SOPHISTICATED that most of us can’t even see it! I support The EFF and hope they can sink Bush at least in this instance.

  • http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6952102263921897950 plat0

    Thank you for this somewhat pertinent link ( whoever you are ) :

    http://www.eff.org/files/802-MTD.pdf

    As usual people are so busy walking their egos that the world moves on unchallenged.

    Did anyone here notice this link after it was posted?

    http://www.eff.org/files/802-MTD.pdf

    Hello America?

  • Guest

    Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. It is Heroes like the EFF that we should be looking up to as role models. Keep up the excellence!

  • http://car2be.com/ Used Audi A3

    “In addition to suing AT&T, we’ve now opened a second front in the battle to stop the NSA’s illegal surveillance of millions of ordinary Americans and hold personally responsible those who authorized or participated in the spying program,” said Senior Staff Attorney Kevin Bankston.

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