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AP Suing Moreover Like It’s 1999

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  1. Brusselsblogger

    It will be a very interesting case.

    One could indeed argue that the copy of a webpage that search engines put in their index is already not covered by faire use. But of course this would more or less mean an end to all search engines (unless they are opt-in only).

    Rich, I hope I do not sound ironic when I ask you to publish the link to the original case text, if you have it. It would be interesting to look at all points in more detail.

    For those being in Europe: have a look at the EU database protection directive -> probably even more a danger for search engines than the copyright laws.

    • Rich Ord

      I have added a link to the complaint at the bottom of the article. It is in PDF format.

      Thanks,

      Rich Ord CEO, iEntry, Inc. Publisher of WebProNews

  2. markr

    Trespass of chattals is an attempt to add a tort claim to the statutory copyright claim and the contract claim of violating the terms of service contract. The only thing missing is a criminal count! Maybe conspiracy or a RICO claim?

  3. Jack Stokes

    Pointing out an error in your Oct. 10 posting. Viacom has nothing to do with The Associated Press lawsuit. Appreciate a correction, since your posting is being up picked by others who also have passed along the name of the wrong firm. Thanks.

    Jack Stokes
    The Associated Press
    Manager of Media Relations

    • Rich Ord

      I am not sure where I mentioned Viacom unless our editors already corrected it before I read your request.

      If I can help you further just let me know.

      Thanks,

       

      Rich Ord CEO, iEntry, Inc. Publisher of WebProNews

  4. I hope the courts will toss this case out and laugh! Not only does this fly in the face of the legal interpretation of “fair-use” but it is not even in the plaintiff’s self-interest. I think we can safely presume that AP’s clients WANT the incoming links that snippeting and linking provide.

    Plaintiff’s case is not in the best interest of the American public; Internet users or even the best interests of the AP!

  5. Jeremy Powers

    The AP is absolutely right to license its information.

    As a former newspaper reporter and now a web developer, I am always amazed that people expect to get everything else for free, but expect to be paid handsomely for the work that they do.

    Newspapers are dying, but news reporting is in greater demand than ever. News reporting requires people to go out and find it, contact people, verify information and write it in a coherent format. It takes time, money and talent.

    People may not perceive it as much, but the effort that goes into a daily newspaper or network newscast is 10 times the amount effort that goes into the greatest songs ever written – and I mean “Appalachian Spring,” not “I’m Too Sexy.” The problem, of course, is that news is fleeting. Who wants to read their favorite news story five years ago, whereas music as a timelessness about it. But it takes time and costs money.

    The idea of the information age is that information is worth something. This whole concept about net geeks that operating systems, programming tools and information should all be free is so utterly stupid as to be laughable. It’s as if tech support should be free for people, even though they didn’t buy a legal copy of the product.

    • Darrel Hunter

      You’re right, they’re dieing because they give their news away for free on the Internet.

      So AP charges syndication… then newspaper ZYX publishment on their site for free (they paid syndication)… Now, Joe Blog posts a link to it with the article.

      Where has AP lost? If Joe’s mama, posts the link to AP instead of ZYX?

  6. Jenn

    If people want to run a news service, but don’t want to dish out the dough for high quality journalists, travel expenses, etc., they shouldn’t be allowed to use another services content to directly compete with that other service, which is what your article is talking about. There’s no reason someone can’t write their own summary of a story they want to link to (unless their purpose is to profit from someone else’s work while sitting on their ass).

    It’s not just about linking. It’s about what amount of text constitutes fair use, and whether or not certain portions of text should be excluded from fair use rules based on their intentions, impact, and inherent value. I haven’t looked into the case enough to make my own decision on which side I’d lean more towards, but I think you’ve over-simplified the legal issue and sensationalized the simple tech side of things for your own audience – not a great reflection on your own news-sharing abilities (while we’re on that subject).

  7. Brian Rogers

    1. Robots.txt.
    2. Moreover, Google Yahoo et al ALL stop spidering the AP site for 48 hours. Then give them a call re their ‘hits’.

    • Exactly Brian, it worked pretty well when Google stopped spidering those Belgian? papers that wanted to sue on similar grounds.

      In fact we should have a reverse blogswarm, instead of everyone linking to some specific item (Santorum, sadly, comes to mind) we should simply boycott all links to AP items and yes, the search engines should just drop them for a few days.

      And if I was a shareholder in AP, I’d want to know why these idiots still have jobs, they are threatening the viability of the business.

      • Earl, Google lost the court case in Belgium and some think they settled with AP and AFP as a consequence of that jurisprudence.

  8. This is typically a British thing! Why can’t The Associated Press be just be like Anita Roddick and find some way of capitalising on the FREE publicity!

    They must be feeling the pressure of the web and I can just hear them squeeling like … Okay, enough.

    That said, linking is one thing – nicking stuff from other people’s site is not on!

    Trish Jones
    The Blogging Queen
    http://www.trishjones.com

  9. Steve Snyder

    Like so much of the main stream media, The Associated Press will eventually work its way out of the market. Fighting the internet is setting yourself up for failure. The 600 pound gorilla will bully its way around, but eventually a smarter and leaner entrepreneur will learn that what AP is trying to fight is in fact a its best opportunity for success. All you have to do is look back at how the movie industry tried to fight the VCR industry. Their assumption that being able to record movies would take money out of their pockets was 100% wrong. Now movies that would never even make money in the box office turn profitable once they are released on VHS or DVD. Wise up AP!

  10. A misguided ruling on this would be a disaster, perhaps AP should be given the opportunity to find that out. They apparently do not seem to realise which way their bottom line will move if they succeed.

    Even better, why don’t they remove all internet content, revert to the days of paper. They might then become worth so little, they could be bought by someone with more vision.

  11. Since I am a published author I understand the concerns about copyright infringement.
    That being said, I find it amazing that the AP or any other news organization would find their way into court over this issue. My view is that once the AP, L A Times, or Wall Street Journal or any such mainstream organization has posted a story online or in print they have placed it into public domain. It is not like a novel, where the proprietary rights greatly differ and usually are covered by a contract between author and publisher. The main difference being that most reporters/writers are employees of the organization, per se. Therefore there is no infringement of the author’s rights as they are usually given over to the publisher at origin, and since the publisher places said stories/pictures/videos into public domain they no longer hold that same penalty as the mis used of a novel.

    I hope there is a rational judge hearing this case and does what needs to be done. “Throw it out for lack of legal grounds.”

  12. Since when is it not right to share news. You don’t pay to watch the news on TV do you? The station pays for you.

    Show me some advertising. If I want it, I’ll buy it. There’s your money.

    • Jenn

      David,

      You’re WAY off base here. There’s no issue with sharing “news.” But sharing a creative work (how that news is written, photographed, etc.) is entirely different. You can use the same facts and write your own news story, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Copying it from someone else is not only immoral; it’s illegal.

      Your comparison to TV just shows how little you understand how that medium works. You DO in fact “pay” to watch the news; just not directly out of your own pocket… you, as a viewer, finance those television networks by contributing to their viewer counts so that they can collect advertising dollars.

      If another TV station came in and stole their competitors broadcast, you’d better bet your ass they’d be sued over it. They’d be directly infringing on the rights of the original program creators. That’s what this case is comparable to; not you as a consumer watching the news or doing your own write-up of a story and citing your source through a link.

      Unlike an advertising model (which no business has to pursue just to appease you), the AP earns through licensing fees. Trying to counteract that in any way when swiping content is indefensible, as is trying to profit from their work and name (if I were them, I’d have the lawyers look into it on a trademark front rather than copyright over a small portion being taken though, as their reputation and name are being profited from by an unauthorized source… in geek terms, it would be no different than Google themselves going after you for using a variation of their name, or their actual name, within a domain name to profit off of that name and reputation).

  13. If the reporters for Associated Press did the research; if they did the writing, and hopefully, someone paid them for their work, then the purchasers and the creators should not have to share with any other publisher. Yes it’s nice if they do but the least another site should do is ask permission before linking and are we talking just linking here? Is it an RSS feed? Is the AP work essentially be re-published by someone else?

  14. Why would you be upset that someone links to your website? They are driving traffic from people who otherwise would not of found your story. Please by all means, link to me..link link link! :D

    Joe

  15. Jim Carr

    Let’s see if I have this straight. Companies research and write news articles. Another company contributes nothing to the content, yet makes money from advertisers by snipping and linking to someone else’s work. They are leeches and should not be permitted to do it.

  16. AP needs to remember “Freedom of Speech” and also the right to inform the public of events. The internet is a way of getting information out to a wide variety of people over a vast area. I’m sure negotiations can be made — no one really owns the “Current Events” “News” so why is it so terrible to get the information to the users of the World Wide Web and if AP be the source of information for Moreover –then AP should be flattered by being looked as a reliable source for information.

    • Jenn

      And these other companies need to learn intellectual property law.

      You can “inform the public of events” all you want. You just don’t have the right to do it using someone else’s words, photographs, etc. They may not own the news, but they do own the creative format, wording, presentation of that news as they create and display it.

      AP doesn’t need to be “flattered” by Moreover. They’re one of the most reputed news agencies in the world, due to a very long time of building their reputation through quality information. No one else has a right to profit from that without compensating them, which is precisely why licensing fees exist. A good part of AP’s appeal is the fact that they don’t just plug every bit of crap news that comes their way. They release quality, informative, well-written news pieces, and their value is in their exclusivity.

      Again in geek terms, it’s like the difference between the “value” associated with content on membership sites (so often plugged as an amazing online business model) versus content placed on non-monetized sites. One model relies on a certain degree of exclusivity (as does the AP model, even if their exclusivity is to publishers and not to readers), and they’d be pissed if someone started copying bits of everything they published. Under the other model the creator may very well feel “flattered.” But that’s not for the content thief (I mean aggregator) to determine.

    • Aleksey

      Actually if Moreover’s goal was to bring news and information to the public’s eye then they should have had their own journalists creating stories.

      AP has certain guidelines for posting their stories. Moreover violated those guidelines and that’s what the case is about. If AP chooses to charge for using their services, there’s nothing wrong with that, after all, they have to pay their journalists somehow.

  17. Andrew H.

    I find it ironic that the very one crying about freedom of the press would have any beef with some “Quoting Them” with a link to “Their” News.

  18. It always seems that when someone has a successful idea, there are those waiting in the wings trying to take it all away.

    IMHO AP should go and find another sandbox to play in if they don’t want to share their toys.

    On the other hand, I’m willing to share and if Moreover wishes to (fair) use any snippets from my site, I promise I won’t sue.

    The internet is based on linking (Google page rank, etc.) and it’s global, isolationism for web-sites does not exist.

    Maybe AP doesn’t want to increase their traffic with linking, but is doing it the old fashioned way, off-line advertising and marketing disguised as a lawsuit, hoping that the media feeding frenzy will drive visitors to their site.

  19. Its too bad that an American judge should should have to decide over such a mindless case. The internet is a world wide web. If we start cutting off strands of that web linking back to US then we risk further isolating ourselves from the world. Don’t we want as many possible links coming back to our free press, reading our editorials and understanding our point of view? Or would we rather just encourage Google to start linking to global news sources in countries that understand the realities of the net?

  20. This is no different that taking a newspaper article and give it to your neighbor. Copyright protection doesn’t apply there either. Now if take the entire article and copy it and put it in my own newspaper and claim it to be my own – well that’s different. If I’m taking a snippet and pointing the reference back to the owner, that’s not wrong, that’s good internet business that will only increase hits on the owners site. Sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

  21. These bloke should understand the meaning of Free Speech and free enterprice. Keep it up AP and you will meet your demise if all those you take to court gang up on you and demolish your little nest egg.

  22. I am a firm believer that ideally the content on a news commentary should be original content. The problem however arises when a new snippet is quoting directly from old content. This would have a naturally flow to it and be relevant however in order to use the quote in context the permission of the author should be granted first. Coming from a strictly regulated industry finance we are always governed by these guidelines which if adhered to correctly gives content which is transparent and legal.

  23. This just makes me boil. I cannot believe someone would have a problem with you linking their site. It just does not make sense. Can someone tell me what AP is afraid of? They obviously feel some sort of threat or something in order to make them want to do something like this. Either way you look at it, people are still reading their news and clicking over to their site. Would someone please elaborate?

    Thank you.

  24. Ann Overton

    If the AP CREATED all of the news then they would OWN it! If I get arrested for something, then I guess I should sue AP for not buying a license to print my story. LOL FREEDOM of speech AP! DUH!!!

  25. John Hinson

    If the AP doesn’t want to be linked to they should just get off the internet, that would solve all of their problems. Out of sight out of link.

  26. Perhaps if all the search engines and aggregators and such would just “blacklist” any article labeled AP newswire, then they might change their tune as many of the articles are also picked up in searches from web sites that actually do buy material from AP. I think that it’d be cool to hear them howl whan they start losing ground (and buck$) as the other news services were given preference….

  27. The wash post, new york times and AP could have owned the internet if the executives and writers had stopped googleing themselves like idiots, and had recognized that everytime a writer mentioned google they were reaching into their own pocket and paying google for the privilage of puting them out of business.
    The horse is out of the barn.

  28. tim

    In the online business world most folks have to pay one way or another to generate traffic.

    In “exchange” for Moreover, Drudge etc linking to an article, the news source receives traffic. So in the end are not the news sources and news aggregators benefiting from one another in kind of a mutual symbiosis similar to clownfish and anemone?

  29. Chris

    Simple answer. Play by their rules and don’t use any of their articles, however,prohibit AP journalists from quoting or linking to internet sources within their articles or research. You will soon find out who needs who more.

  30. In the state of California, we have some kind of law that states that if 80% of the people do what the law proscribes, that law is unenforceable. This usually applies to mundane things, such as speed limits, and even if it’s unsafe to go that fast, the state will raise a speed limit to a speed that people are driving.

    80% of search engine results include snippets. At least 80% of bloggers use news snippets, just like I’m going to do to this article when I get done posting this. Get used to it.

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