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Congress To Make eBay A Rat
By Jason Lee Miller - Sat, 11/29/2008 - 15:23
Sites required to conduct secret investigations
Taken together, three bills in Congress would require online marketplaces and auction sites to secretly police affiliates suspected of selling stolen goods. In addition to requiring extensive record keeping on sellers using the site and turning over that information to authorities upon request, the legislation prohibits resale sites—like eBay or craigslist—from informing suspected sellers they are being investigated.
>> Article Updated 09/29/08
None of the bills, two in the House of Representatives and one in the Senate, is expected to come to a vote before the Congressional recess—they’ve got bigger fish to fry in Bailout Brand oil at the moment—but the House Judiciary Committee's Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security held a hearing on the subject recently.
The purpose of the legislation is to target organized retail crime, or bands of shoplifters and hustlers hocking ill-gotten goods online, where the National Retail Federation, which has come out aggressively in favor of the legislation, says thieves can sell goods at 70 percent value. Street corners typically only bring 30 percent of the retail value.
The problem was highlighted recently when a New York vendor was busted selling Victoria Secret brassieres on eBay for $25 a pop. They typically sold for between $40 and $80. If you’re wondering why Homeland Security is being dragged in to this, it’s likely because of alleged past connections between organized retail crime syndicates traced to Hezbollah and Hamas.
Naturally, the Internet is to blame.
Though, NetChoice’s Steve DelBianco colorfully compared this logic to blaming the back seats of cars for teenage sex, the NRF’s vice president for loss prevention, Joseph LaRocca, has elevated the problem to the level of addiction to Class A narcotics. At the aforementioned hearing, LaRocca said:
"The Internet seems to be contributing to the creation of a brand new type of retail thief – people who have never stolen before but are lured in by the convenience and anonymity of the Internet. Thieves often tell the same disturbing story: they begin legitimately selling product on eBay and then become hooked by its addictive qualities, the anonymity it provides and the ease with which they gain exposure to millions of customers. When they run out of legitimate merchandise, they begin to steal intermittently, many times for the first time in their life, so they can continue selling online. The thefts then begin to spiral out of control and before they know it they quit their jobs, are recruiting accomplices and are crossing states lines to steal, all so they can support and perpetuate their online selling habit."
Soon you’re likely to see them on A&E’s “Intervention.” Though evidence of the above scenario is lacking, it sounds like Congress is taking this just as seriously as the NRF.
Individually, the bills are: H.R. 6713, the E-Fencing Enforcement Act of 2008, sponsored by subcommittee Chairman Bobby Scott, D-Va.; H.R. 6491, the Organized Retail Crime Act of 2008, sponsored by Representative Brad Ellsworth, D-Ind.; and S. 3434, the Combating Organized Retail Crime Act of 2008, sponsored by Senate Majority Whip Richard Durbin, D-Ill.
Congressman Scott’s E-Fencing Enforcement Act mandates that online stores and resellers disclose contact information for high-volume sellers—with sales of $12,000 or more per year or sales of $5,000 or more in any single offering—“to any inquirer with standing under this section.” An “inquirer with standing” is defined as anybody who sends a copy of a signed report made to or received from law enforcement in the past year involving goods matching the description of those offered online after a theft.
The legislation requires marketplaces to store contact information for three years, and upon the retailer’s request the online marketplace would be required to investigate whether the goods sold are stolen. If so—or even if there is good reason to think so—the online marketplace provider would be required to ban the seller and remove the seller’s listings.
Congressman Ellsworth’s bill ratchets it up another notch, making both online and offline organized retail crime a federal offense. Ellsworth requires providers to act quickly to investigate and to maintain a database of all suspected shady sellers, including their name, telephone number, email, physical address, user ID, company name, and a record of all transactions for three years. Again, the provider is required to hand over that information to anybody with suspicion of a particular seller.
Senator Durbin’s bill puts the nail in the due process coffin by requiring online marketplaces presented with evidence (by any inquirer with standing, remember) that a seller is fencing stolen goods to file a report with the US Attorney General, tell the plaintiff the report has been filed, and then start looking for evidence of other illegal activity. Durbin’s legislation bars the provider from informing the seller they are being investigated.
Quick summary, if these bills pass: Anybody (retailer, competitor, etc.) who claims to suspect a seller of illegal activity can file a police report, present it to the marketplace provider and the provider must shutdown the seller. The records the provider has been required to keep for three years of all seller information and activity must be handed over to authorities and reported to the Atty. General while the provider presumes guilt and conducts a secret investigation of the seller on the government’s behalf in case there might be, could be other illegal stuff happening, and is barred from saying anything about it to the seller.
Please, someone explain to me how that’s remotely constitutional.
It’s all not without its hypocrisy, of course. Democrats have railed for some time (before caving in other instances, like with FISA legislation) about the Administration’s continuous erosions of rights and liberties, and here we have three Dems constructing further erosions. The NRF, too, looks a bit ridiculous in this, not just for their comparison to addiction, but also since retailers have refused to accept eBay’s offer to help police for stolen goods because they didn’t want to give up any control of the process. Clearly, government control is better then, huh?
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109 Comments
ebay
Thanks for a great article and it has really opened my eyes up to Ebay!
Perfect..
Thank you..
To solve this issue there
To solve this issue there should be a governing factor, but since everything is virtual, then it can not be done, once the server or busines is moved then there is the jurisdiction problem. The only way this will be solved is when a company like ebay or paypal stepped up and do the right thing which is to developed a more secured and intelligent sites.
Ebay is getting worse by the day
It's almost as if Ebay don't want to give anything back to their customers. I just got something to say to them: Please remember your customers "other people" always come first, because they ARE your money. Thank you.
Make quick cash
EBAY
ANTERNATIVE TRY IT FOR FREE NO LISTING FEES
HTTP://WWW.BARNBID.COM
reply
my thought
I was skimming the comments at the bottom of the page and they appeared to be half for and half against the idea - each making some pretty good points, but if someone steals an item, they will find a way to sell it.
Ebay
Ebay are like the banks, a law to themselves.
government ready to go after sellers with ebays blessings
If you haven't been keeping records on ebay you had better start or make arrangements with the IRS. It seems like the illegal aliens have taken over ebay and billions have vanished into the abyss.
eBay will be turning over millions of records on small and large sellers and also, get this large spenders. There are also planted all over eBay spies so if you get a knock on your door have your paper work ready.
I partnered with the top Ebay competitor!
I quit Ebay! Now Iam out for revenge! Lets stick it to them like the greedy sons of ####### did to us. I now have my own website where I sell Amazon products, that means I make money off other peoples auctions. Plus I can list all the products of my own that I want, (I do not have to list them with Amazon first) I just put them up on my website. I can also put all the affiliate links banners and digital products that I want on MY webpage and get paid for it. I have my own domain name so Iam building my own brand name and customer base. It was a turnkey website setup and ready to go when I started it, but with the online editor you get with it you dont need to know HTML or any programing to add your own products,banners, affiliate links, or digital products. I can change the site to look anyway I want its very easy to do. And I offer my costomers Free online games,news ,weather, sports and more. All for $20 a month. Why pay Ebays fees when you can have all of this and amazon will pay you to sell other peoples poducts along side yours , and you dont have to list anything on amazon if you dont want to? Go to my site Durashopping.com to see an example of this Website. I have modified the site(you will not get one just like it) to look the way I want, you can do the same very easy. If you also want to do this- just click the green banner at the top of the page.
durashopping.com
Understanding
Let's be realistic and understand some basic concepts:
Gov't tries to protect people from themselves soley as a means to control the same.
To put it bluntly, by our own actions we get what we have earned. And the bottom line on E-Bay is that it is a world-wide barter & trade symposium that is hard to tax. And let's face it, when it comes to taxation the Gov't & the powers that be want a piece of the action and will use any means to get it. Including the age old excuse of protecting the people from themselves.
If I was E-bay.... I'd say fine & close shop. Re-emerge again under the original business plan. One thing is clear.... economic realities trump political realities.
google Professional-mover
http://www.professional-mover.co.uk
See my page on google... What you think about my seo work
I sell my folding clothes lines off ebay
I sell my folding clotheslines off ebay and when i did i was checked for my authenticity. i didnt mind as i knew they were trying to protect the public and thats a good thing for the reputation of sellers online as a whole.
Citizens Wake UP - Enough Big Brother!!
Typical Democratic rights erosion crap! Now the Government is whining because they want retailers to act as 'Unpaid Vigilante Deputies' as they can't do their job! It's NOT the job of Retailers to act as Deputies!
Stop this further erosion of rights! Sure, those perpetrating the problem should be caught, but that's not the Retailers job is it! Start giving in to that dictatorship and watch what else follows.
The Government has got so arrogant and controlling already, it needs to be stopped from further abuse!
RE
1984
Don't worry, be happy! Obama is going to make our mortgage and car payments, and give us free medical. I will continue to sacrifice my liberties because I will be safe! Why does he have to give up his Blackberry?
Congress To Make eBay A Rat
I live in the Irish Republic. I rarely purchase from USA suppliers on ebay because many decline to export to Europe.
I see no reason why Federal authorities should add cost to my purchases when my actions cannot involve the USA.
I do not mind the USA knowing full details of my purchases, but would resent paying extra for my goods in order that ebay may tell tell the authorities.
BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING! The film only got the year wrong.
Congress To Make eBay A Rat
Clearly a case of too many congressmen with too much time on their hands. This proposal is something which is easilly doable. eBay probably already is keeping logs of sales and purchase statistics for all members. Personally, I really don't care since I stopped using eBay when they started forcing PayPal use, and raised fees to unreasonable levels. I previously paid by money order and had over 60 no-problem tranactions. Fo me, eBay sucks and I hope it continues it's downward spiral. This legeslation will undoubtly help. So be it.
It is the governments way to
It is the governments way to weasel their way to take total control.....first this, then that.......thereby eroding our very freedoms they are supposed to defend..........socialism, communism, governmentism......haha........if it makes big bucks, they want in. How else can they support all their agendas for massive government control.
It is best we wake up. What about gambling......do they care what it does to the less fortunate and their families? What about selling alchohol on our nations highways? The dollar speaks more clearly than the people of this land.
Taxes on everything provided by internet and gov't getting its share. Follow the money!
Great article
Enjoyed the read as usual. thanks for the great information
victim vs criminal
Looks like the old ' We're the victim not the criminal' routine with the foolish lawmakers letting them believe it with their 'an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure' legislation. Got to remember there is already an investigation going on now over illegal surveilance. I believe it's against the US government or even very prominant elected officials of the US government.
More Big Brother Just What America Needs
Great posts and comments. Here are a few more thoughts:
1) There is no such thing as anonymity on the Internet unless your doing a great job hiding behind a proxy, but in reality, everything is trackable on the Internet.
2) While it appears there has been some massive theft ring and people needing eBay anonymous to kick the need to sell stolen goods online. Where is the evidence that this is the case? Any news reports or studies, or do we just take this at face value?
3) What Constitutional rights do we have left? And why aren't American's stomping mad?
4) Why is that we never see any media reports regarding Constitutional rights being erroded?
This is just another ill attempt to get at the publics private records and information while putting all the burden on companies like eBay to start policing. I think this will hurt
Rats-r-us
The answer to the 1 question is in the text. the US government. So those of you in other countries don't have much to worry about from the "world police" heh.
"register" with a government agency: that would mean they have to work. that can't happen.
While I can't speak for E-bay But our site only uses Paypal so all purchases are electronic. Simple track for big brother. And I know from my own size someone as big as bay can't track every person on how many times they sold something. I have a couple guys who ARE wholesellers. They sell a bunch of the same items. Big brother gonna go investigate them? I don't think they will pass. to many conflicts with the constitutional right. It'd be to easy to say "ya we checked it out and found nothing." Then big brother comes in and finds something or makes something up.
So look for
So look for "Ebay-annomonous" groups soon? You know health care for those convicted for such offenses.....I understand the need but once again I'm glad to not live in the U.S.A
ebay
life of the criminals fbi cia fed irs is like a giant turd the more they squeeze the more shit will drip on there shoose ha ha idiots
eBay the Rat
To Whom It May Concern:
I think that the government just does not know what to do with itself.
I just started getting into the eBay madness myself and now they are taking the fun out of things.
Sure, i'm all for making sure laws are not broken, but they will start scaring a lot of honest patrons away with the big brother approach.
Congress should stick with helping the president get this country out of the mess it's in right now.
I'm sure that big businesses like eBay can handle whatever that comes it's way.
They take the fun out of everything!
Thanks!
yvette
WHAT IS EVERYONE AFAID OF
I think its good because as long as everyone is not selling stolen goods on Ebay everthing should be just fine
Ebay and Paypal
Since that greedy Frenchman took over both paypal and Ebay that seems to be the case .......fees everywhere.
Some sellers take a while to wake up I hear.But others think it is not worth the trouble.It's like with everything it takes money to make money and Ebay is no exception.
As for police doing their work why not if you are honest why object.?I would think it was in your best interests too. Why would you want Ebay warning thieves. Or do you think it should be open slather on the Internet?
OF COURSE THE FACT GOVERMENT
OF COURSE THE FACT GOVERMENT IS MISSING OUT ON HUGE TAX REVUNUE WOULDNT COME INTO THE EQUATION WOULD IT ?.
UNFORTUNATELY WE ARE WATCHED IN EVERY ASPECT OF OUR DAILY LIVES AND AS TIME GOES BY IT WILL ONLY GET WORSE.
IF POLICE AND GOVERMENT SPENT MORE TIME DOING THE JOBS THEY ARE EMPLOYED TO DO RATHER THAN SPEND MILLIONS, PERHAPS BILLIONS , OF DOLLARS AND COUNTLESS HOURS PLAYING MIND GAMES WITH THE GENEARL PUBLIC THE WORLD WOULD BE A FAR BETTER PLACE .
WHY DONT THEY PUT SOME OF THEIR ENERGYS INTO FIGHTING WORLD POVERTY , GETTING RID OF PEOPLE LIKE MAGARBEE AND OTHER MURDEROUS CRAZED CRIMINALS , WE ARE ONE OF THE LARGEST WORLD POLICE NATIONS BUT CONTINUE TO ALLOW THE WORST OF THE WORST TO INFLICT MASSIVE PAIN AND SUFFERING TO LESS FORTUNATE PEOPLE WITHOUT A MURMER.
THE WORLD IS BECOMING A VERY SICK PLACE
Government and the internet
I think it is a bit far fetched to think people will start selling goods on the net and then (upon running out) will cross state lines to steal stuff to sell. That sounds pretty crazy to me and I really don't believe that happens. If it does I think it is a rare event. The government is always trying to scare people into thinking all these awful things are going on so they need to get involved to protect us. Really I don't think they care one way or the other about the common folk. And you sure can't believe anything they say because they say what they think is necessary at the time. It is true people can get addicted to the net but not in that way. I think selling stolen goods is really very small in the scheme of things.
The government seems to be into everything making it their business for one reason or another. They always seem to be trying to save us from ourselves. I think they have no business getting involved in half the stuff they get into. But it's the government so what can you do? Granted there are plenty of evil people out there these days but I think alot of this stuff just hurts the ordinary person who is having a hard enough time.
Ebay
The internet is a great place to conduct business it is also a great place to comit fraud because to the anonimity, and such sites as ebay, paypal or any other site should protect both the sellers and the buyers. There is a major issue about this, ebay was not design to do this and so as the others sites, they are design to make money from the people that utilized their sites in conducting business whether it is legal or illegal. To solve this issue there should be a governing factor, but since everything is virtual, then it can not be done, once the server or busines is moved then there is the jurisdiction problem. The only way this will be solved is when a company like ebay or paypal stepped up and do the right thing which is to developed a more secured and intelligent sites.
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