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Shroud Of Turin Research Has One Doctor Convinced It’s The Real Thing

    April 20, 2014
    Zach Walton
    Comments are off for this post.

The Shroud of Turin is one of the most controversial artifacts to have ever been found. The piece of cloth depicts a man’s face, hands and legs that many claim to be the body of Jesus Christ. For some, it’s proof that Jesus lived, died and was resurrected. For others, it’s a dirty piece of cloth that people put too much importance on. While these two sides argue, science continues to search for the truth with one scientist now claiming it’s the real deal.

The Tampa Tribune reports that Clearwater Beach resident Dr. Wayne Phillips is now convinced that the Shroud of Turin depicts the face of Jesus Christ. While Dr. Phillips is a Catholic, he says that his conclusion comes from hard science instead of faith. To illustrate this, he travels the country giving lectures on the science that proves the shroud is real.

So, what is some of the science that Dr. Phillips cites to prove the shroud is real? For starters, he says the carbon dating method used in 1988 that pegged the shroud’s age at 600 years has been refuted time and time again. He also points to research conducted by Shroud of Turin Research Project in 1978 that proved it’s not a painting. Perhaps the most compelling evidence for the shroud and the resurrection is that research has shown the body under the shroud to have dematerialized. In other words, whoever was buried under the shroud wasn’t moved, but rather simply vanished.

If you want to know more, you can watch one of the talks Phillips gave at his alma mater:

Dr. Phillips isn’t the only academic putting a lot of time into studying the shroud. The Richmond Times Dispatch did a feature story on the local Shroud of Turin Center in Richmond, Virginia. The research center and museum has been a part of the city’s Mary Mother of the Church Abbey since 1997 and has sought to educate the public on the shroud and it’s importance. It’s just one of many shroud centers in the United States. You can see a full list of centers here.

While visiting a center can give you all the information you need on the shroud itself, it still can’t replicate seeing the real thing. For that, you’ll have to travel to Turin, Italy where the shroud is displayed to the public every few years. The last showing was in 2010 while the next will be in 2015. Many U.S.-based shroud centers hold pilgrimages to Turin when the shroud is going to be displayed. The faithful and the curious may want to go with them if they have any desire to see it.

Image via Wikimedia Commons


  • Kevin Bethke

    Great presentation. Happy Easter.

  • barack obama

    The Shroud of Turin is a 3 dimensional photographic negative. No forger could have done this. It has to be real, supernaturally made. It’s a snapshot of the resurrection. No natural explanation is possible.

    • puttputt

      sorry, way too young and not the right materials for time period, just another fake by some jokester just like all the Noah’s arch B.S.

      • bufny1

        and just let me guess???? You’re an atheist?? in other words nothing will ever convince you that God/Jesus exists?? Don’t worry on your death you’ll have all the proof you’ll ever need

        • Abusoru007

          Or he’s somebody that actually pays attention to evidence and doesn’t jump to conclusions.

          • gizmo118

            What evidence?

          • gizmo118

            Tell us about your evidence, please — we can wait.

          • wing_ding

            carbon dating showed the fabric came from around the 16th century.

          • KC614

            As the article said the carbon dating is suspect. I’m not saying this means it is indeed the burial cloth of Jesus but the carbon dating does not disprove it.

          • Walter

            The shroud of Turin was a product of the Execution of Jacques de Molay head of the Knights Templar in 1350 The shroud’s Carbon Dating dated between 1260 A.D. and 1390 A.D. At the time of his death He was crucified to get him to talk. and the shroud was created by a Maillard reaction a nonenzymatic browning the same that gives steaks and bread their fake browning effect with the sweaty acids in his face due to his torture. The shroud looks very similar to his portrait.

          • wing_ding

            a lot more believable that the burial shroud of jesus …

          • Doc Guy

            de Molay was burned at the stake
            no crown of thorns
            Maillard reaction may result in dehydrative acid oxidation, but virtually impossible to replicate image resolution comparable to the shroud. Also the de Molay theory wouldn’t explain the pollens specific for Jerusalem

          • Walter

            Picture of Jacques de Molay. He was tortured earlier and Crucified to a door.

          • Beth Rose-Acor

            He is not paying attention to evidence, nor are you. If either of you did, you would realize that Jesus did in fact live. The fact that Jesus lived is well documented in writings that were written during his life and just after his death. Even his enemies (Romans) documented his existence, their writings coincided with his supporters accounts. The Roman’s called his acts of miracles “trickery” while his supporters called the acts “miracles”. Nobody argues that Jesus lived (unless you want to believe that he did not), nobody argues that Jesus did things that were great. The argument lies in what the nature of those acts were and whether or not God exists and if in fact Jesus is the son of God. Just because you choose not to believe, does not mean Jesus never lived. In reference to the Shroud, although we may never know its true origin, we know it held grave importance as it was preserved and protected for two thousand years and hidden by the Knights of Templar. You simply do not preserve and protect a piece of cloth for two thousand years if it holds no importance.

          • JTL

            @Beth Rose-Acor: There is no account of Jesus in any Roman writing whatsoever. Please do your homework before pontificating upon something you know nothing about. Hearsay is no evidence, by the way.

          • KC614

            It’s you who need to do homework sport. Josepheus, a contemporary of Christ who wrote for the Romans, mentions
            Him in some detail. Very few people whether athiestic, or religious from around the world question whether or not Christ existed.

          • notinittowinit

            There is plenty.. you need to do some homework and read about Jesus first. Then come back to us.

          • Beth Rose-Acor

            You are so ridiculously f-ing stupid it’s astounding! YES there are plenty of ancient writings wherein Jesus’ life story was told WHILE he was living! If you don’t know that, you are beyond stupid, you are unteachable!

          • notinittowinit

            This Doctor doesn’t jump to conclusions either.. But of course, he doesn’t share your point of view.. which is what? One carbon dating test that could have been inaccurate.

        • Steve Summers

          let me guess, you’re a believer? in other words nothing will ever convince you that God/Jesus exists??? Don’t worry, all you wasted was your life.

          • Beth Rose-Acor

            Are you actually questioning that Jesus existed? If you are, then it is no wonder as to why you are an atheist, as you are ill informed. The fact that Jesus lived is well documented in writings that were written during his life and just after his death. Jesus did in fact live and even his enemies (Romans) documented his existence, their writings coincided with his supporters accounts. The Roman’s called his acts of miracles “trickery” while his supporters called the acts “miracles”. Nobody argues that Jesus lived, nobody argues that Jesus did things that were great. The argument lies in what the nature of those acts were and whether or not God exists and if in fact Jesus is the son of God.

          • JTL

            @Beth Rose-Acor: I know that Jesus never existed. I am not questioning anything. It is you who are misguided and pitiful. But, hey—some people really enjoy fairy tales.

          • KC614

            There is plenty of historical evidence that Jesus did exist.

          • Ken Miller

            JTL you are the one who needs to do the homework,
            The Roman historian and senator Tacitus referred to Christ, his execution by Pontius Pilate and the existence of early Christians in Rome in his final work, Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44. If you read this book he give two who chapters and names and people who either rote something or eye witness to Jesus

          • notinittowinit

            You know that thing called a book.. if you ever find time between shifts at Mc D’s, I suggest you crack open a few and read them.. might be able to raise yourself up from minimum wage..

          • Beth Rose-Acor

            History has proven his existence you jackass! That is not a faith based thing, it is a fact that he lived! You people are so freaking stupid its appalling!

          • notinittowinit

            Must be lonely for you… knowing when you die you become nothing.. and are nothing.

          • Steve Summers

            yes, actually, it is lonely for me here. looking forward to death and my return to the hive mind.

        • wing_ding

          when I see some irrefutable facts, I’ll change my mind until then keep your magic sky people to yourself. You should be embarrassed.

          • eb

            I would like to point out that when you were born into this world you had a mother right? It was understood by you that she was your mother right? You never had any doubts that she was your mom. You just knew she was. You never ask her to prove that she is your mother right? It was understood in your house and in your mind she was your mother… Now apply that to how we believers experience truth and the existence of God our Creator and or His Son Jesus Christ. It is universally understood by His children. God does not have to prove His existence to anyone. To those who need proof..that’s ok too. He is more than willing to provide it in many ways in the physical and in the spiritual realms. He is a loving God. Just ask Him. You wont be sorry for He knows you better than you know yourselves.

          • wing_ding

            he sure loved those kids on that ferry in Korea. Guess he couldn’t wait to share paradise. Now about my mother – she ACTUALLY existed. I saw her, talked to her, watched her die and then be buried. Can’t say that about jesus. Remember the new testament was written a 100 years or so AFTER his execution. If you knew anything about Roman history you’d understand that it was written to reduce the hate the Government had for the early christians. A lot more likely than the magic …

          • Beth Rose-Acor

            Why is it that when something bad happens all of you stupid atheist come out of the woodwork (like the cockroaches you are) and immediately start blaming God? Did it ever occur to you that man and evil have way more to do with daily events than God does? The devil wants you to blame God, he creates things to make you turn against God. Looks like he succeeded with you.

          • wing_ding

            then why bother with god … yes, I blame god for the bad things like you idiøts praying to “him” after the fact.

          • bufny1

            “wing ding” is a great moniker for someone with the IQ of a peanut

          • John P Schipsi

            WING_DING, You blame a “god” that you do NOT believe in and that you claim with 100% certainty: “Does not exist!” for bad things that happen?? How the hell could a NON-existent being be responsible for anything, if, by definition, the being does not exist.
            Ok, tell the truth, have you graduated high school yet?? Are you maybe a 15-17 yr old with an ax to grind because your mom was taken from you too early??
            We all know that it’s not easy to lose a loved one, but we all have. I’ve lost a brother, sister, niece (murdered,,,famous case in the U.S.), grand parents, aunts, uncles, friends. We all die.

            Are you afraid that your mom was not saved when she died?? You don’t know that for sure. She could have been saved, there’s always hope.

            I just sense a lot of anger in you, as though you’ve suffered some terrible loss/es and that you’re in pain as a result. The is One Who is able to help you. Just stop what you are doing and cry out His name. I promise you that you that you will find what you seek if you do.

          • wing_ding

            John, John, John – I’m only angry with people running around jamming their religion down everyone else’s throat. I do not blame god as there is none. My point is don’t bother praying to god AFTER the disaster as what makes you believe he will intervene then rather than before.

          • KC614

            But I bet you buy the climate change boondoggle which has not actual evidence dont ya? LMAO

          • wing_ding

            of course I do – the facts are there and 97% of the scientists who actually study this stuff all agree.

          • KC614

            I love bullshit percentages. It’s the only “accepted science” with no real evidence. Yet your mind is not inquiring enough to question it because BS percentages are thrown out there. There is a reason people don;’t care about that issue. It’s because they smell BS. The only science where skeptics are asked to prove a negative. It’s about money that’s all. No one denies man has some impact obviously but the hysteria is manufactured feces.

          • wing_ding

            let me ask you a question if you went to a 100 doctors and 97% said you need a treatment and the remain 3 said “nah” what would you do?

          • KC614

            Climate Science is a relatively new science. All of the scientists are supported by government grants or by green energy companies. There have been several instances of proven data manipulation. There have been multiple defections by top level scientists who dispute the hysterical tone. You figure it out. It is about money and a political agenda. All the climate models on computer have proven inaccurate. Every single one.

          • John P Schipsi

            Wing_Ding: 97%?? Where the hell did you get that figure? That is blatantly false and a made up #. The actual statistic is the 93% of scientists polled agree in that we are in the middle of climate change. I AGREE!!! We are in an ongoing climate change. The climate is always changing. back when I was a kid, it was “GLOBAL COOLING” ; we were entering another Ice age. The Al-gore comes along and it becomes “Global Warming”, that goes away, for obvious reasons and now we have “Climate Change”. Wow, what a concept, a world that shifts its Polar axiS every 10000 years or so, goes through “Climate change” NO kidding??? @ KC614: Wing-Ding, like many, many others, is a result of the “get em young” group of “edumacators” that brainwash and forcefeed this BS down their throats, every day for 12 years and then in college Their arents don’t give a rats patoot, so this is the result. A bunch of Obozo drones, trolling the web, seeking to push their anti-God, anti_Christian agenda. It will fail in the end, when the Lord of Lord and King of Kings come to send these agents of Lucifer to join him in bondage, eternally.

        • J.C.

          Guess again, KoolAid drinker.

          • bufny1

            Oh then please tell us “Oh GENIUS” how the world began–if you can read (which I sincerely doubt)-I suggest you read an article from 2009:
            World’s Smartest Man’s Proves God
            The highest measured IQ was that of Christopher Langan (estimated between 195-210).
            His theory the “Cognitive Theoretic Model of the Universe” (CTMU) provides a proof for the existence of God
            You atheists are nothing but cowards-simply put you’re afraid of the truth

        • randall w putnam

          Or none at all, which is what the rest of Earths organisms do, but yeah, we aren’t from the Earth, I know!!!

          • John P Schipsi

            Putman, you amaze me. You have zero evidence that God does not exist and you have myriads of scientists, doctors, astronomers, etc… that believe conclusively that God does exist. He, God, has given ample proof of His existence and just the facts surrounding the resurrection of Jesus Christ would be enough to convince most open-minded, objective scholars. But, little nobody;s like you, with little education and huge bias against God troll these blogs believing that by stating that God does not exist is enough, and that your burden has been met. Oh, Putman, I pray earnestly that I will see your knees bend and your head bow as the Lord of lords and Kingof kings begins your judgement. As you cry out in agony that you were wrong and beg for another chance. Your life will be played before your eyes, so that you can see yourself posting your anti-God dribble on this and other blogs. You will have no one but yourself to blame. You will sand alone, without counsel, judged and ready for sentencing. Your cries for mercy will go unanswered because you willfully chose to ignore all the evidence presented you. You should tremble at the thought, yet you laugh in the face of God. You will be judged accordingly Putman, and I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes when that judgement takes place. REPENT now before it’s too late. REPENT!

      • Angelina33

        Puttputt It is not cool to be an atheist. Maybe is because you are too young and you have not experience what faith and hope is, there is not feeling compare with the blessing that God give you and I feel very bad for you, if you do not open your mind and heart you will never be able to have the knowledge of the truths and you will go through life with empty heart and limited mind. It is nice to learn, analyze and learn.

        • Steve Summers

          angelina, i’m not an atheist because it’s cool. I’m an atheist because it’s what i believe is true.

          • skibug

            the only thing this person believes is that OBAMA is a great president . i’l bet he still believes that the earth is flat . nothing you say will change his mind . these kind of people is what one calls ” MORONS ” .

          • JTL

            @skibug: You sound pretty moronic yourself.

        • JTL

          @Angelina33: Please—keep your Bronze age bull crap fairy tales to yourself.

        • puttputt

          Sorry honey, been around a long time and around the world in the 70’s in the Navy, so grow up and get rid of the fairy tale book and join society or scuttle back to mama’s side!!!

      • John P Schipsi

        tell you what PUTT PUTT, lets see you, or any other modern day “jokester” recreate the shroud. It’s been tried, even with the advancement of science, yet it cannot be duplicated. MUST HAVE BEEN SOME ”JOKESTER”, with “middle aged science to be able to stump todays scientists, hey? OR, it’s the real deal and that scares the living hell out of you, doesn’t it, putt putt?

        • Lynn Point

          John, have you ever heard of a camera obscura? This is a well-known device of ancient origins that could have made this image. No miracles required. I know you deny this possibility in other posts, but this then is NOT “science” on your part. It becomes a matter of “faith.” That’s fine, if that’s what you WANT to believe, but don’t delude yourself into think that belief is based on science.

          • Frank Topping

            You need to find the articles that outline the extensive nuclear level test that the shroud has been put through. It cannot be replicated by todays science. It does appear, therefore, to be real.

          • wing_ding

            Please, don’t argue with the believers. Rationale argument and fact will not dissuade the weak minds from accepting the facts – there are no magic sky people.

          • Beth Rose-Acor

            This knowledge and method was not available during Jesus’ lifetime. We may never know its true origin, but we know it held grave importance as it was preserved and protected for two thousand years, hidden by the Knights of Templar. You simply do not preserve and protect a piece of cloth for two thousand years if it holds no importance like a simple drawing. Plenty of science has been done and not once has it been replicated and not once has any scientist claimed it was done with the camera obscura. It is so easy for you to dismiss faith when in reality, it is based on science and facts, yet you readily accept that science disproves the existence of God because it cannot prove he exists. Open your mind, open your eyes, the truth shall set you free.

          • Lynn Point

            Enh. I’m not impressed. Frank is convinced that some sort of “extensive tests” prove the shroud is real, when these tests simply do not exist. And Beth, your faith is just that: Faith. It is not based on science or facts because the “science” and “facts” you want so hard to believe do not exist. And I don’t “readily accept that science disproves the existence of God.” Your writing that is just an example of how you distort things to your own beliefs. Science – as has been said many times in many venues – cannot disprove the existence of God anymore than it can disprove the existence of unicorns. What I accept is that the shroud’s origin can be conclusively dated to the period circa 1300s. History also says that the earliest writings about the shroud say it was an admitted fake. So why do people venerate it so much? Phht. Why do people venerate various “bleeding” Madonna’s that are nothing more than condensation or runny red ochre, or obscure vague images of Christ that appear around the world in tree trunks or fruit pies? Because the WANT to believe. That’s all. They’ll lie to themselves and they’ll lie to the world (as Phillips is doing) to support that desire.

          • Beth Rose-Acor

            The science of it does in fact exist. Who in the hell are you to tell me what biblical scholars have studied for years? You think you know more than they do you? You have no idea who I am and what i know. You ASSUME that I distort things to fit my beliefs. As I wrote my comment I was referring to specific data that was scientifically rendered. The “dating” of the shroud that you keep referring to is from a piece of the cloth that was added to the original shroud 800 years ago, not the Shroud itself! You are not nearly as smart as you think you are. I refuse to have a battle of the wits with an unarmed person, so comment away I shall ignore your ignorance

          • Lynn Point

            The idea that the piece of cloth tested on the Shroud is from a “repair” that was performed 800 years ago has been thoroughly refuted by a number of professionals. I’m not assuming you distort things to fit your beliefs…I know this to be the case based on what you’ve written, at least in regards to this matter. Here again is yet another example, where you are willfully ignoring the evidence that refutes your so-called refutation of the age of the cloth that was sampled.

          • John P Schipsi

            Lynn Point, yes, I have heard of the “Camera Obscura” theory, but it’s been dismissed and long ago. Try getting an image from ANY photograph, be it from a modern day Nikon to an old Camera Obscura.,that when scanned with lazer imagery, will give a 3-D image. Can’t be done, your arguement dies right there. You, I suspect, knew better when you posted you long since debunked “Camera Obscura” theory, Lynn.

          • Lynn Point

            Actually, it hasn’t been debunked, John, unless you’re counting the fallacious attempts by certain True Believers to do so. But I’m not saying that’s the way it was done; I’m only saying that is a way it could have been done.

          • John P Schipsi

            @ Lynn Point: Lynn, yes, the theory that a photograph, which is what a “camera Obscura” produces, can produce a 3D image as been debunked and by scientist from NASA using the 3D image produced by the NASA image analyzer VP-8. The image on the Shroud of Turin produced a perfect 3D representation of the image on the shroud. When the scientist tried this using other photographs ( which, by the laws of science, must be 2D, they were universally unable to procure a 3D image from any photograph. This is established and irrefutable fact and therefore evidence that the image on the Shroud is indeed not the result of any photographic experience.
            The results on the Shroud were so spectacular, that these hard core
            scientists, from NASA, are convinced that it is a miraculous image of of a human being, that was crucified in the early to mid first century and that an energy beyond the understanding of modern science caused the image on the shroud. BTW, these scientists have all produced articles that can be referenced and. all can be contacted for statement through their respective employers. I’ve included an article, although not the best, the only one I could find using my “Smartphone”. Please read the article and others that provide the same evidence with an objective frame of mind.
            Warm Regards to you, Lynn!

            LINK: http://www.photoofjesus.com/

        • JTL

          @John P Schipsi: Nothing scares me, because all of this supernatural crap is just that—crap. Why do you people insist on believing this stuff?

          • John P Schipsi

            @JTL: I’ve noticed something about the non-believers; For the most part, their statements/conclusions are dogmatic and are rarely, if ever, accompanied by supporting, objective observation. Just empty, “I said it, therefore it is…”!

            JTL, I would put forward to you that your description of the Shroud of Turin being “Supernatural crap”, flies in the face of the conclusions of MANY scientist, far more intelligent and educated than you, or me, who believe, absent of faith, but due to hard, scientific evidence. Your conclusion that a belief that is supported, in part anyway, by science, as being “crap” is rather arrogant, certainly without any objectivity and really nothing more than an ad hominem attack.

            You use words like “stuff” in attempt to diminish the validity of the science that supports this “stuff”.
            Why I waste my time arguing with brainwashed, high school students, raised in homes where religious faith was frowned upon, even forbidden. Where the more hedonistic an idea was, the more that idea became practice. Where God was dismissed as a belief for the ignorant and narrow-minded and for the “INTOLERANT”, when, in fact, it is those without faith that are most intolerant, is becoming a more pressing question that requires my attention very soon.
            I have become certain that there are some who are beyond hope and destined to an eternity of kicking themselves in the ass and there’s not a damned thing that I can do about it.

            I’ll leave you to work out your own salvation, JTL and pray for you and those like you. No amount of scientific evidence is going to convince a mind that has been utterly brainwashed.

      • Frank the Crank

        Noah had 2 archs, one on each foot!!!

      • gizmo118

        Did you READ the article?

      • ethan

        so youve taken samples yourself, and had them dated? please pot your personal findings. thanks :]

      • grmtnmn

        Noah’s arch was in his shoes. Now Noah’s ark is a different matter.

      • notinittowinit

        Noah’s arch? rotflmao. The carbon dating testing they did was flawed. It is the real deal.

    • Dante

      The Shroud of Turin is not a photographic negative, though there are many images of the negative that show three-dimensional imagery. It could certainly have been made with natural means, 600 years ago, with light-sensitive materials. National Geographic successfully demonstrated that a primitive human-sized camera obscura could have created the Shroud, accounting for all – ALL – of the discrepancies. It is not a painting, the image has been burned on. The materials are around 700 years old. A cloth touching a human form would create a flat, distorted image, not a three-dimensional one. Jesus looks Caucasian, especially Italian. It is a marvelous artifact, for sure, but of early scientific discovery.

      EDIT: I was mistaken. The Shroud itself IS a photo-negative. It’s been a while since I’ve given so much thought to this subject.

      • John P Schipsi

        Dante, Please reference your expertize! National Geographic didn’t demonstrate jack-crap, except for their own bias. If the shroud is phony, then why can’t it be duplicated today? You nay-sayers crack me up. Jesus could appear before you right now, and you’d say that it’s a holographic image sent by the Paladiens to ward off the N1H1 virus, a scam of universal proportions, but JESUS? IMPOSSIBLE! LOL, anything but the truth, right Dante. BTW, your name is very apt / your conviction

        • Dante

          Well, I’ve studied both science and religion in academic and non-academic settings. I was raised Catholic, and I’ve explored religion and spirituality and do not consider myself an atheist nor an agnostic. In fact, I wish Jesus WOULD appear before me right now. It would resolve a lot of my questions. You can see the National Geographic special yourself, if you’d like to see the argument they make. I’m sure it’s on YouTube. I have never heard that the Shroud couldn’t be duplicated through photography. It sounds like it could to me. Are there any sources you have that could demonstrate that? I’d like to see them if my understanding of the controversy surrounding the Shroud is incomplete. As far as I know, nobody has attempted to duplicate the Shroud with photosensitive chemicals, only painting or branding with statues. I believe that the NG special showed that it could be duplicated. Remember, the Shroud is a Catholic relic, one of many shrouds that turned up in the Middle Ages. Forgery of relics or misrepresentation of unremarkable items as relics is a pretty well-documented occurrence by churches at that time. That doesn’t mean Jesus didn’t exist or that he wasn’t who he said he was. It means the Catholic Church was (and still is, in many ways) deceptive in its promotion of Church doctrine.

          By the way, I was named after my great-grandfather, an Italian immigrant. It’s a family name.

          • John P Schipsi

            You have researched this subject in Academic settings, yet you’ve never heard of any attempts to recreate the Shroud of Turin???

            There have been several, all miserable failure that look like a 3rd grader’s finger paintings. All done by so-called unbiased scientist and “artists”.

            For example: Luigi Garlaschelli His “work” was laughable, yet at first anyway, he was on every major news network espousing that he had proven the S.O.T. a fake. Then, when he produced his “proof” he was laughed into oblivion.

            There have been many other attempts, all failures, unable to do now, what they claim a person who lived 600-800 years ago was able to do.

            Here is more reading, plenty out there!! : http://shroudstory.com/2009/10/11/stephen-jones-take-on-the-garlaschelli-fake/

          • Dante

            I didn’t study the Shroud of Turin. I studied science and religion in academic and non-academic settings. I’ve followed a bit of the conversation about the Shroud, but I have not done extensive scientific study of the Shroud itself.

            In this blog post you sent me (which says something about it’s credibility as a source) makes some pretty weak arguments. There’s a tendency to mince words (“similar to” instead of “exact,” for example) that show an incomplete understanding of scientific process. It tries to follow an inductive reasoning approach to the language used instead of addressing the claims that are actually made. Many of the hard arguments against the claims being made there are based on previous claims that have also been debunked or responded to (such as the blood on the cloth being actual blood, when it’s been shown to be vermilion).

            The strongest argument there seems to be about when the blood was applied to the reproduction. I suspect that it could be applied before the burning by actually applying it to the person lying under it.

            In the end, it’s shown that a reproduction of the shroud is possible in that way, though I find that a little far-fetched. Again, I point out that my post about it not being reproduced was by photographic means, which is not the way they created the image in 2005.

          • wing_ding

            How is it that a 15th century cloth was used in the first century? They may not know how the fake was made but we know it to be a fake, just as fake as religion.

          • John P Schipsi

            Wing_ding. Your premise is a strawman argument. The cloth is not 15th century, is 1st century. But, the fact is, you are relying on the 1980’s technology to draw your conclusions. Even the skeptics are now admitting that they used samples from the wrong part of the cloth. Samples where a group of nuns did what is called “Interweaving”. This has been established fact, yet you want to dwell on a premise that has long since been dismissed. THE SAMPLE WAS TAINTED WITH MODERN MATERIAL. Wing_ding, do you have GOOGLE on your computer?? If so, use it and learn something instead of be a drone for the atheists and trolling the forums trying to spread your ignorance. Sorry dude, but your ignorance and nearsightedness is profoundly obvious!

          • gizmo118

            Hey, Dante. It’s about FAITH.

          • wing_ding

            Faith never paid the rent, fixed a broken bone or (fill in the blank of your fantasy du jour).

          • John P Schipsi

            @ Wing_ding: IGNORANCE never paid the rent, fixed a broken bone or (fill in the blank of your fantasy du jour).

          • wing_ding

            Faith = Ignorance. Simple as that. The more you know of the facts the less likely you are too need faith.

          • John P Schipsi

            @ Wing_ding: Really? “Faith = Ignorance” and “””The more you know of the facts, the less likely to need faith.”””
            How about you tell that to the famous Scientists who happened to have had a faith in God. Are ya ready Wing-Nut?:

            Famous Scientists

            Abdul Qadeer Khan

            Abu Nasr Al-Farabi

            Ada Lovelace

            Adalbert Czerny

            Agnes Arber

            Ahmed Zewail

            Al-Battani

            Alan Turing

            Albert Abraham Michelson

            Albert Einstein

            Alberto Santos-Dumont

            Albrecht von Haller

            Aldo Leopold

            Alessandro Volta

            Alexander Bain

            Alexander Brongniart

            Alexander Fleming

            Alexander Graham Bell

            Alexander Von Humboldt

            Alfred Binet

            Alfred Blalock

            Alfred Kinsey

            Alfred Nobel

            Alfred Wegener

            Amedeo Avogadro

            Anders Celsius

            Andre Marie Ampère

            Andreas Vesalius

            Angel Alcala

            Antoine Lavoisier

            Antonie van Leeuwenhoek

            Antonio Meucci

            Antony Hewish

            Archimedes

            Aristotle

            Arnold Orville Beckman

            Arthur Eddington

            Artturi Virtanen

            Avicenna

            B. F. Skinner

            Barbara McClintock

            Beatrix Potter

            Benjamin Cabrera

            Benjamin Franklin

            Benjamin Thompson

            Bernardo Houssay

            Bill Nye

            Blaise Pascal

            Brian Cox

            C. V. Raman

            Carl Bosch

            Carl Friedrich Gauss

            Carl Sagan

            Carolus Linnaeus

            Charles Babbage

            Charles Darwin

            Charles Lyell

            Charles Sherrington

            Charles-Augustin de Coulomb

            Christiaan Huygens

            Christiane Nusslein-Volhard

            Clarence Birdseye

            Claude Bernard

            Claude Levi-Strauss

            Clyde Tombaugh

            Daniel Bernoulli

            David Bohm

            Dian Fossey

            Dmitri Mendeleev

            Dorothy Hodgkin

            E. O. Wilson

            Edmund Halley

            Edward Jenner

            Edward Teller

            Edwin Herbert Land

            Edwin Hubble

            Elizabeth Blackwell

            Emil Adolf Behring

            Emil Fischer

            Emil Kraepelin

            Emile Berliner

            Enrico Fermi

            Ernest Rutherford

            Ernesto Illy

            Ernst Haeckel

            Ernst Mach

            Ernst Mayr

            Ernst Werner von Siemens

            Erwin Chargaff

            Erwin Schrödinger

            Erwin Schrodinger

            Euclid

            Evangelista Torricelli

            Francesco Redi

            Francis Bacon

            Francis Crick

            Francis Galton

            Frank Hornby

            Franz Boas

            Frederick Gowland Hopkins

            Frederick Sanger

            Frederick Soddy

            Friedrich August Kekulé

            Friedrich Wöhler

            Fritz Haber

            Galileo Galilei

            Georg Ohm

            George Beadle

            George Gamow

            George Gaylord Simpson

            George Washington Carver

            Georges-Louis Leclerc, Comte de Buffon

            Gertrude Elion

            Gerty Theresa Cori

            Gottfried Leibniz

            Gottlieb Daimler

            Grace Murray Hopper

            Gregor Mendel

            Guglielmo Marconi

            Gustav Kirchoff

            Hans Bethe

            Hans Christian Oersted

            Hans Selye

            Harriet Quimby

            Hedy Lamarr

            Heike Kamerlingh Onnes

            Heinrich Hertz

            Hendrik Antoon Lorentz

            Henri Becquerel

            Henrietta Swan Leavitt

            Henry Bessemer

            Henry Cavendish

            Henry David Thoreau

            Henry Ford

            Henry Moseley

            Hermann Rorschach

            Hermann von Helmholtz

            Homi Jehangir Bhabha

            Humphry Davy

            Ibn Battuta

            Ibn Rushd

            Irene Joliot-Curie

            Isaac Newton

            Ivan Pavlov

            J. J. Thomson

            J. Robert Oppenheimer

            Jagadish Chandra Bose

            James Chadwick

            James Clerk Maxwell

            James Dwight Dana

            James Hutton

            James Prescott Joule

            James Watson

            Jan Baptist von Helmont

            Jane Goodall

            Jean Andre Deluc

            Jean Piaget

            Jean-Baptiste Lamarck

            Jim Al-Khalili

            Jocelyn Bell Burnell

            Johannes Kepler

            John Bardeen

            John Dalton

            John Locke

            John Logie Baird

            John Napier

            John Needham

            John Ray

            John von Neumann

            Jonas Salk

            Joseph Banks

            Joseph Lister

            Joseph Priestley

            Justus von Liebig

            K. Eric Drexler

            Karl Landsteiner

            Katharine Burr Blodgett

            Keisuke Ito

            Kip S. Thorne

            Konrad Lorenz

            Kristian Birkeland

            Lee De Forest

            Leland Clark

            Leo Szilard

            Leon Foucault

            Leonardo da Vinci

            Leonhard Euler

            Lester R. Brown

            Linus Pauling

            Lise Meitner

            Louis Agassiz

            Louis de Broglie

            Louis Pasteur

            Lucretius

            Ludwig Boltzmann

            Luigi Galvani

            Luther Burbank

            Lynn Margulis

            Mae Carol Jemison

            Marcello Malpighi

            Maria Goeppert-Mayer

            Maria Mitchell

            Marie Curie

            Mario Molina

            Mary Anning

            Max Born

            Max Delbruck

            Max Planck

            Max von Laue

            Michael E. Brown

            Michael Faraday

            Michio Kaku

            Mihailo Petrovic Alas

            Mohammad Abdus Salam

            Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi

            Murray Gell-Mann

            Neil deGrasse Tyson

            Nicholas Culpeper

            Nicolaus Copernicus

            Niels Bohr

            Nikola Tesla

            Noam Chomsky

            Omar Khayyam

            Otto Hahn

            Paul Dirac

            Paul Ehrlich

            Pearl Kendrick

            Percy Lavon Julian

            Pierre Curie

            Pierre-Simon Laplace

            Prafulla Chandra Ray

            Prokop Divis

            Pythagoras

            Rachel Carson

            Ramon Barba

            Randy Pausch

            René Descartes

            Richard Feynman

            Rita Levi-Montalcini

            Robert Bosch

            Robert Boyle

            Robert Brown

            Robert Bunsen

            Robert Goddard

            Robert Hooke

            Robert Koch

            Ronald Ross

            Rosalind Franklin

            Rudolf Christian Karl Diesel

            Rudolf Virchow

            Salim Ali

            Sally Ride

            Sheldon Lee Glashow

            Shintaro Hirase

            Sigmund Freud

            Srinivasa Ramanujan

            Stephen Hawking

            Steven Chu

            Svante Arrhenius

            Sven Wingqvist

            Thabit ibn Qurra

            Theodor Schwann

            Theodosius Dobzhansky

            Thomas Alva Edison

            Thomas Burnet

            Thomas Hunt Morgan

            Thomas Kuhn

            Thomas Midgeley Jr.

            Thomas Newcomen

            Thomas Willis

            Tim Noakes

            Timothy John Berners-Lee

            Trofim Lysenko

            Tycho Brahe

            Ukichiro Nakaya

            Virginia Apgar

            Vladimir Vernadsky

            Werner Heisenberg

            Wernher Von Braun

            Wilbur and Orville Wright

            Wilhelm Conrad Roentgen

            Wilhelm Ostwald

            Wilhelm Röntgen

            Wilhelm Wundt

            Willard Frank Libby

            William Bayliss

            William Buckland

            William Harvey

            William Herschel

            William Hopkins

            William John Swainson

            William Ramsay

            William Smith

            William Thomson

            Wolfgang Ernst Pauli

            Zora Neale Hurston

          • wing_ding

            You are serious and deserve a serious response. (1) the politics for the older scientists of your group required them to be believers (2) there’s a larger chunk of more recent scientists who claim atheism. Faith has no place in science.

          • John P Schipsi

            “Faith has no place in science”? Tell that to Albert Einstein, Copernicus, Galileo , Sir Issac Newton. all had an extremely strong faith in a Creator God and many were Christian.

          • wing_ding

            In all the cases you site except Einstein, not being religious was considered blasphemous and subject to death. Given that, I’d confess to believing.

          • John P Schipsi

            Wing_ding, Wing_ding:

            In all the cases that I mentioned, none of them gave a rats a$$ what the church thought. Galileo was punished by the Catholic church, but did not change his position, so that lends credibility to my statement. These men all proffessed their beliefs, no matter what the church said.
            A) Like you said, Einstein was not subject to persecution by the church, but, Einstein was not “religious” at all. He simply believed in a Creator God. That backs up my theory.
            B) Because Einstein lived during a time when there was no being subject to death for not being religious in the United States ( circa; 1957 ), there was no compelling reason to profess a belief in God, for Einstein, except for what he referred to “”….an order in the universe, a undeniable mathematical order and structure that could only have come by design. That designer being a “CREATOR GOD”. So under no threat of a charge of heresy, Einstein professed the belief in God.

            C) Galileo Galilei, whom I mentioned, was persecuted by the Catholic church, namely Pope Urban Vlll and was charged with heretical beliefs, convicted of Heresy, all because he refused to renounce his statement the the Sun, not the earth, was the center of our universe. Yet, through it all, he held a devout belief in the Resurrection of the Lord, Jesus Christ. Galileo never altered, or changed his mind in the face of persecution, so that goes to back up my claims about these men. Site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei

            D) Sir Issac Newton was an extremely devout Christian, who along with being one of the greatest mathematicians that ever lived, he was raised in the Anglican Church and answered to no one. Newton shunned the authority of the church and did not fear persecution. In fact, he told the Anglican church where to shove it many times. Newton wrote many articles on Eschatology ( The study of “End Tines” events from a biblical standpoint.). He wrote book after book about the absolute evidence of a Creator God.
            site:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton%27s_religious_views

            Wing_ding, I’ve noticed that all of your rebuttals sound exactly like the DRIBBLE that comes out of the mouths of those who like to call themselves “Professors” and “Teachers”, but are merely nothing more than puppets and Parrots who mouth the same vomit over and over again. Never an ounce of proof to back up their theory, just dribble.

            You seem to be bright and you have a spark of profound intellect. Why not use what God gave you to seek out His truth, His love for you and His creation, of which, you are part?
            God bless you, Wing_ding!

          • gizmo118

            Wing ding reads to many Scientific American Articles.

          • gizmo118

            Subject to death?

          • gizmo118

            Here’s a newsflash, Einstein believed in God. So did Louis Pasteur.

          • Tim

            Dante, Jesus does give us proof of his existence, but just not in the way you think. When in the Bible, Jesus is talking to Nicodemus he compared the moving of his spirit to the wind, though you can’t see it you can see the effects of it. When I actually did what the Bible said to do; repenting and seeking forgiveness of my sins from him, he did reveal himself by answering my prayers. It was amazing. If you’ll sincerely do that and then start praying about problems and issues in your life, he’ll begin “showing” himself to you, too. You’ll find the greatest friend you could ever imagine. God Bless and Happy Easter!

          • Dante

            Happy Easter, Tim!

          • dan

            Don’t you think that you could have resolved the issue yourself ?? Just because you put faith in it doesn’t make it real . Primitive cultures have done the same thing throughout history . The world did not begin 2000 years ago LOL Having faith in yourself is what you did . Why assume you need a crutch . Believing is believing . It does not matter who you claim has brought you your prayers .

          • John P Schipsi

            Dan, There are scientists with Genius IQ’s who have become born again believers because of the Shroud of Turin and also, the facts surrounding Christ’s resurrection. Faith is what it is. Salvation may not be your desire Dan. God will not drag you kicking and screaming like a spoiled kid in Kmart, into salvation. It’s a personal choice. Why do you care so much that others believe?? Why are you atheists always on the lookout for people with faith in a Creator God?? Do you feel that it;s a conspiracy? You see Dan, If I am wrong and there is no God, no resurrection and when I die, I just rot in the ground, then so what? I’ll never know that I was wrong all along. But, on the other hand, what if you are wrong? What if, when your eyes close for the last time and you drawl in your last breath, your hearts stops beating, your brain activity flat-lines, what if you find yourself standing in the presence of the Creator Judge who holds you accountable for not using the grey matter between your ears and looking for evidence of His existence and His sacrifice on the cross? What if, Dan, you are wrong?? If I am wrong, I’ve lost nothing. If you are wrong, well, you’re F$%ked!

          • wing_ding

            There may have been a jesus but read it from the perspective of a crazy rabble rouser and the story makes a lot more sense.

          • Doug

            Hey Dante,

            Its Obvious that your are a very intelligent man with an open heart and mind. The church does not make any official proclimation on the shroud of turin or any of the reported apparitions of the Blessed Mother around the world. Including Lourdes or Fatima or Guadalupe. From my understanding they never make a conclusive statment of fact. What it does is analyze the evidence, witnesses, etc. At which time if nothing revealed contradicts Scripture as understood through the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, the Church says you as a Catholic are free to believe it or not. No miracles no matter how great or small …determine anyones salvation. I love the Shroud precisely because it is so mysterious and at the end of the day if it is real…and if we really are battling principalities and powers. Then one day an exact replica could be produced. Even if that happens it has no bearing on the authenticity of the shroud itself. We are always left with the question Do we believe and at some time in our life we have to answer the greatest question posed to man ever….when Jesus asked the question ” who do u say that I am ? ”

            Everything can be explained away somehow or in some way but we are always left with the paradox ” is the glass half empty or half full ” in that we have the freedom to choose.

            The Blessings of Easter be upon you and your family Dante !!!

          • Dante

            This is absolutely true and something I probably should have mentioned myself. The Catholic Church does not have an official position on the Shroud one way or another. When I had stated that the Chruch was often deceptive about such things, I should have been clearer that it was often local parishes and churches that would make claims about relics. It’s probably likely that local merchants and charlatans convinced the local population, who in turn pressured their local priest to pony up the money for the alleged relic. I know that many times it was something bought by a wealthy patron who donated the relic to the local church, who in turn got a little fame and “indulgences”/forgiveness of sins.

            I’m not 100% sure where the Shroud fits in all that, though with its history, it seems to be something provided by a patron at some point.

            Happy Easter, Doug.

          • 79Sista

            Hey, the fact that you desire or are seeking Christ speaks volumes of hope and exactly as the Word of God states Jesus Christ said:
            Luke 11:9 WEB

            “I tell you, keep asking, and it will be given you. Keep seeking, and you will find. Keep knocking, and it will be opened to you.
            You can also read Proverbs 8:17, Matthew 7:7 and 1 John 4:9 WEB

            By this God’s love was revealed in us, that God has sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him.
            The Most High God DOES love you and His Son YAHUSHUA (Jesus Christ) is all the proof you will ever need :)
            May God Bless you and reveal Himself to you just as you have asked~

        • Guest

          Same goes for you… Who says it can’t be duplicated? Hell if something so simple as an impression on a cloth is made once you can’t make it again and supposedly it’s impossible? What a load of laughable bull… You so-sayers crack me up to the point it’s just funny debating you. Well why doesn’t jesus appear before non believers??? You can’t attempt to prove something using non biased research while proclaiming a bias, there’s a reason why the infamous scientists of the previous eras kept religion away from their work and I wouldn’t expect someone like you to understand that since you’re logic seems to convienently dodge that facet.. Hell there are more idiotic theories than a man asexually reproduced from a non tangible spirit who can leave impossibly reproduced things so their religious followers milleniums from now can point and hold onto their believes to avoid the conspiracy lunacy statement. Projection is something religion does to avoid scrutiny anyway after all your going to probably explain how water can be turned into wine from thin air…..

          • John P Schipsi

            Hey, “GUEST” Show me the “Duplication”, then we’ll talk. Sir, you act as though ignorance were a virtue!

        • Jaeger19ultima

          Same goes for you… Who says it can’t be duplicated? Hell if something so simple as an impression on a cloth is made once you can’t make it again and supposedly it’s impossible? What a load of laughable bull… You so-sayers crack me up to the point it’s just funny debating you. Well why doesn’t jesus appear before non believers??? You can’t attempt to prove something using non biased research while proclaiming a bias, there’s a reason why the infamous scientists of the previous eras kept religion away from their work and I wouldn’t expect someone like you to understand that since your logic seems to convienently dodge that facet.. Hell there are more idiotic theories than a man asexually reproduced from a non tangible spirit who can leave impossibly reproduced things so their religious followers milleniums from now can point and hold onto their believes to avoid the conspiracy lunacy statement. Projection is something religion does to avoid scrutiny anyway after all your going to probably explain how water can be turned into wine from thin air…..

          • John P Schipsi

            Yo, Jaeger19ultima: If it can be duplicated and many “scientists” have tried, then why has it not been duplicated? I understand that young, brainwashed drones like you cannot grasp the simplicity and logic of a LINEAR ARGUMENT, but try to stay focused, take another Ritalin. IF IT CAN BE DUPLICATED AND MANY HAVE TRIED TO DUPLICATE IT, THEN WHY HAVE THEY ALL FAILED? Now, can u stay focused long enough to answer that very straightforward and simple question.
            Did you know, Jaegmiester, that you cannot argue a negative. Ok, now you really have to try real hard to focus here: SHOW ME THE DUPLICATE. WHERE IS THE DUPLICATE? If it can be DUPLICATED, and many have tried, the show all of us the duplicate. Now, you can take a break, smoke a joint, read the rest of your Spiderman comic book and get back to us. We won’t be holding our breath!

        • dan

          God was supposed to return after Jesus was executed . Just like God was to come after John the Baptist was beheaded . Please understand the history of your God . God is an inherent need for humans . We need to understand the world around us in ancient times . When a flood occurred it was GOD . When the sun came up it was GOD .WHen a natural catastrophe occurred it was an angry GOD When the Moon Was full it was GOD . When we needed to be saved from oppressive rulers we needed a messiah to come and save us !!!! You believe that there was only one messiah or prophet to come forth and claim he was the king of all kings ????? Please understand Human nature . You live in the stone ages people . You do understand the Roman Empire organized your religion don’t you ? They made Jesus your god in order to control the Jews under Roman rule . They spread the religion and wrote the BIBLE and all the rules within it . Try and read the BIBLE and follow all that is within it . You would be jailed or executed . Mark Twain said it best . The BIBle is full of interest has noble poems and clever fables its has a history drenched in blood it has good morals and is full of obscenity and has upwards of 1000 lies

          • John P Schipsi

            @ Dan: Please show me where it is written that God “was” supposed to return after Jesus was executed? Would you admit that today is “…after Jesus was executed”? If Jesus returned tomorrow, that would be “AFTER HE WAS EXECUTED..”, would it not?
            But since you lack even a very basic understanding of scripture, I cannot continue to debate you. You are unarmed and this debate is a study and lesson in insanity.

            Tell me and please be truthful, have you ever read one, entire Gospel in the New Testament? Come on, Dan, get real.

        • You’re stupid

          The shroud has be duplicated.

          • John P Schipsi

            @ You’re Stupid: SHOW THE DUPLICATION! Where is it? You drones and trolls keep saying that the “Shroud has been duplicated.”, not not a single one of you have referenced a single example!!!
            WHERE’S THE BEEF?
            PUT UP, OR, PLEASE, SHUT UP!!

            My word, your ignorance is profound and you have very aptly named yourself “STUPID”!

      • gizmo118

        Think long and hard.

      • Cymboli

        I remember Camera Obscura demonstrated on 3 2 1 Contact in a Bloodhound Gang episode

      • wing_ding

        if it’s truly christ, he looked amazingly like a middle ages white guy not a local aramaic jew. Grow up – it’s been proven a fake. Join the world as it is.

        • John P Schipsi

          @wing_ding: LMAO. Are you serious?? Jews are white. My word, you are such a moron. I can’t keep this up. It takes me too long to stop laughing and I keep losing my place. The Jewish bloodline is the single most pure ethnic bloodline in the world. The Jews today, look like the Jews from 2000 years ago.
          Would you PLEASE educate yourself.. ARGH…!!!!!!!!

          • wing_ding

            John, you are badly deluded … semites of that time looked like the rest in the area … they were brown not european white. don’t like the idea that jesus was a “darkie?” Just for you edification, if that’s possible, the diaspora has resulted in european jews looking like europeans and sepharadim looking like north africans. deal with it.

          • John P Schipsi

            Oh, wing_ding, how do I deal with you. Jews i the first century look like the jews look today. There were “Samaritan Jews” that were despised, (Re: The Good Samaritan) by the jews of the day and the Samaritan’s were of darker color, so were the Ethiopian Jews, which are dark skinned. But, the Jew from the 1st century is genetically indistinguishable from the Jew of today. By “Jew” I mean ETHNICITY, not religion. Wing-Ding, go to the “Stanford University Ethnicity research group” and find out for yourself. Please, don’t come back with more vomit about jews being “black, brown, etc…) Of course the Jews are non-European in ethnicity, does that mean that they cannot have white skin? Where the hell do you come up with your nonsense?? A little research goes a long way. Every time you comment here, you further prove just how unedumicatedered you are.

    • Lynn Point

      I don’t think you understand what “3 dimensional” means. It doesn’t show the sides of His head, for instance, as a true 3-dimensional illustration would show. Instead it shows a flat, 2-dimensional illustration, as you’d expect to find from a painting.

      • John P Schipsi

        @ Lynn Point: Show me Lynn! Please link an example of what you describe. I have a full understanding of what Three Dimensional is. No, 2 dimensional photograph has ever been able to produce a 3D image. If you have evidence to the contrary, then POST IT. Show US, Lynn. Put my argument to rest. Have me walk away with my head bowed in defeat. Link an example.

        • John P Schipsi

          I’ve noticed that “LYNN POINT” never returned with her 2D.3D example. The reason why she didn’t return is because non exist. So much for the OLD “Camera Obscura” theory!

  • liban

    Amazing!!! Today is Easter Sunday. HOW appropriate.

  • begotnot

    They always bring this story out at Easter, for years and years.

    • gizmo118

      Yeah imagine! The passion and resurrection at Easter. Amazing.

  • stephen j

    it is real…at least I believe it is….that’s proof for me

  • robb32

    It’s akin to the Tower of Babel, where man attempted to do things of his own accord, and lost the ability to communicate . Like all things God, for example, Noah’s Ark ; this too deals in the Faith realm as well. God says over and over again throughout the bible “If you have the faith of a mustard seed..and…”if you believe by faith.”.and so on. If clinical proof exclusively is what sells your life and death decision making, then I’m afraid you will never find satisfaction, nor eternal life. John the apostle, who was present at the tomb, post rising, spoke specifically to the fact that the Body “passed through” it’s linens, rather than being unwrapped. How massive must have been the power that could raised Christ, so much so that the 5 ton boulder covering the tomb was tossed across the yard like a pebble..and the angle sat atop it… Is it hard to believe that a power so awesome could leave an indelible mark on a piece of linen that touched so precious a body as our Savior? Absolutely Not. What SHOULD be more important is that indelible mark, like that on the shroud, that God leaves ON YOU when He enters into your life through His Holy Spirit. That Spiritual image, you can bear forever..(“I will never leave nor forsake you”)…should you have..the FAITH to believe. Meet the Man who rose from those linens, and experience His love, rather than fret about proving something that lost humankind cannot fathom.

    • John P Schipsi

      Wow Robb32, you nailed it and very, very eloquently I might add. I took a much more condescending approach and I feel a bit ashamed. I can tell that you are the real deal and I am humbled!
      Lord, forgive my arrogance.

    • dan

      I am just really curious to know how you came up with all these conclusions . First of all you need eyewitness accounts and unfortunately none are alive . Here say is all you have . Then you need to actually know who has written the bible and then why . It would have been written and organized by people of power . The Bible is nothing more than control . All things within are about control and rules . The Roman Empire under constantine I believe organized Christianity and all within . It was taken from other fables throughout history . It may have had 1000 authors LOL The first writings were about 75 years after jesus was executed for being an anarchist and threatened to cause uprisings and also claiming to be the messiah . I think John the Baptist was also the messiah and was beheaded and that is where Jesus took over .

  • Joseph Danielson

    This is physical evidence of the most important event in human history – the Resurrection of Jesus, the Messiah. There’s no other explanation – no human could have made this image and leave nothing on the cloth in terms of paint or any pigment. See “The Real Face of Jesus” on YouTube, made by the History Channel in 2010. Because Jesus rose from the dead, everything He said was true… and the Bible is true… and we can appropriate eternal life just by putting our faith in Him.

    • gizmo118

      Bingo! ^5

    • dan

      Is it really ? Why would god need to prove anything is my question ???? WHy is this an important event ??? Where has religion even gotten us as a race ? Actually it has not gotten us anywhere . It has caused war and deaths and human suffering and still does . Its history is drenched in blood !!!!! You don’t even have one clue about what was done in the name of your dear lord do you ??? You don’t wanna know . You just wanna get outta here and hope that you see the Kingdom of heaven which was promised . Well none of you ever will . You see you do not live by the actual bible if that is what you believe . You think that you can just go to church or believe and then all things good will come to you ??? How is this so ? You have not sacrificed nearly enough for his love or mine . Your soul will not be spared . You have all forsaken the one and only .

      • Beth Rose-Acor

        You are correct in that more people have died in the name of religion than any other reason. However, for a person to believe in something good like God or Jesus isn’t a bad thing. We are the ones who perverted the word of God. HE does not ask that we strike each other down, war over territory or even kill each other over faith. In fact, his word was that of peace and love. It is us, as mankind that made a perversion of his word and the teachings of Jesus. Even Jesus told the Jews not to strike against the Romans because they too were men. His teachings told them that to kill the Romans was as wrong, as the wrongs committed against them by them Romans. If a person wishes to embrace the love of God and have faith that by living as good person and doing good for others, what harm is that to you? I won’t argue that more people have died for the perversion of faith, (like Islam) but I will argue that our souls will be saved if we live with God in our hearts. If you hold yourself responsible and accountable to a higher power, you just may find yourself being a better person and making better choices. Just knowing that there could be an eternity in hell makes me want to be a better person.

      • Joseph Danielson

        Well, it isn’t Scripture, the only real source of truth. But the evidence to support its authenticity is very powerful. What made the image? Why is the blood on it human? Would a forger go through all this trouble? Why are there no other cloths – from the Middle Ages or EVER – that have a similar image? Did somebody do it the first time – secretly, with no attempt to claim credit – and come up with such a profoundly perfect 3-D data base that can be made into an amazingly realistic image in the 21st Century? And these questions just touch on the reasons to believe it’s authentic. God proves His existence every day – by the very fact that the brain you have has the capacity to ask these kinds of questions. It’s my speculation – along with a lot of other people – that the Shroud of Turin is one piece of undeniable evidence that God has given to us. Another way to say it: you want God (if “he” exists) to give you proof of “his” existence? If you refuse to see His hand in nature, then He’ll leave physical evidence that a reasonable person can look at and accept as that evidence you seek. It seems perfectly reasonable that God would do that. God doesn’t have to PROVE anything… it’s because He loves humanity that He gives us one reason after the other to put our trust in Him. He wants everyone to believe that He is real and He is the Truth. Are there not people out there right now who deny that Jesus even existed – that somehow the Romans (!) and Josephus (for whatever reason) made Him up. Hey, I hate religion – you’re right on that. False religions (including those that call themselves Christian) are the most destructive, devastating ideas on the planet. Genuine Christianity, however, is not a religion (defined here as man’s attempts to get to God). True faith teaches that God had to come down to US. We, as the human race, turned our backs on Him. He graciously made it possible to be made right with Him simply by believing that the price of our sin was paid on Calvary – if we embrace that truth, we enter into a relationship with the God of the universe. That’s the simple truth – that’s what genuine Christianity is all about. False religions (anything else but the simple truth stated above) have indeed been a scourge on this world. Satan is the father of lies – he instituted false religions all over the place. What makes you think I don’t know history – you don’t know what I know! I certainly know that there are lots of religionists around today and in the past who have taken the name of my Lord Jesus in vain. Jesus Himself warned us that many false teachers would come in His name (see Matthew 7). The Pharisees claimed to be serving God, but they led the way to the execution of God’s Son, Jesus. They were the most religious people in Judaism in that day, and Jesus lambasted them at many times and in many ways. They are the perfect example of false religionists acting like they are serving the one true God – and nothing could be further from the truth. “For me to live is Christ, but to die is great gain” to quote the apostle Paul. I believe the Bible – have YOU actually read it? I think you are going by what others have told you. I read it (every day) and I see a loving God on every page. I see Jesus (who, if Josephus could make Him up, we need to be worshiping Josephus), the Master Teacher, God in human flesh, who showed the love of God to this world in many, many ways. I believe going to church has nothing to do with faith – I do that because believers were commanded to come together in groups to be the Body of Christ on the earth. “For all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God,” but “He who knew no sin, became sin FOR US, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” (2 Corinthians 5:21)

  • Guest

    Over the past 30 years or so, I’ve tried to keep up with the various studies and tests conducted to prove/disprove the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin. Although i have always believed it to be the cloth that Christ was buried in, my left brain has always remained open to scientific inquiry. To-date, no study has been conducted (that I’m aware of) that would cause the spiritual part of my brain to stop believing that this is indeed the shroud that Christ was buried in.

    • puttputt

      Yeah, there is one most important one that says it is 600 hundred years too young, now you can deny that all you want and you can believe any thing you want, your right, but but your a dying breed!!!

      • Frank Topping

        That “600 year old” Finding was flawed. The snip was taken from a finely woven bit of a patch that was affixed around that date, not the actual shroud. Again, read ALL the research!

  • aj1

    The shroud of turin is a fake – period. It has reliably been dated to be only about800 years old, in accord with reliable historical evidence.
    And what kind of a doctor is Wayne Phillips? Is he an expert on dating historical articles, or archaeology…or anything relevant? Nope.

    • fred

      “It has reliably been dated to be only about800 years old” – don’t kid yourself. It has not. It has been “proven” and dis-proven again and again. It has also been shown that carbon 14 dating has revealed a number of different conclusions and skeptics have always chosen the results that “prove” their POV’s. However, in the end the Shroud does nothing to prove nor disprove the Resurrection and the existence of Christ.

    • The GRIM!

      Actually it has been dated to the time of Christ thru historical records

      • puttputt

        If you want to believe that, feel free, especially if it makes you feel closer to your God, but the rest of society knows it has been proven to be younger then that time period, PERIOD!!

        • Anthony

          I don’t understand why you feel the need to reply to everyone’s comments as if you know everything. Give it a rest please…. You atheists are so quick to dismiss and shoot down all arguments that don’t conform to your limited way of thinking.

          • dan

            Why would not believing in your GOD be a limited way of thinking ? Was it not your religion that set limits on everything ? Science was forbidden !!! Anything not relating to religion or anything that would disprove religion was grounds for death !!!!! What ignorance !!!!! A total and utter lack of knowledge about what your religion was and is . It seems you are the one that is limited by your religion . It is one who asks questions and seeks truth and understanding that is not limited

        • Shawn Patrick

          I don’t believe it’s authentic, but the rest of society knows no such thing. The part tested was proven to be cloth added onto the shroud after it was damaged in a fire.

          • Steve Summers

            then, the church sure chose the wrong part to have tested, didn’t they.

          • gizmo118

            Yes they did.

          • John P Schipsi

            @Shawn Patrick; Sir, you are a perfect example of an honest and sincere non believer in the Shroud’s authenticity. Thank you for your honest observation!! God bless you.

        • John P Schipsi

          I love these “PERIODS” that the nay-sayers add to their comments. PuttPutt, you’re not intellectually honest, PERIOD!!

        • gizmo118

          Don’t bother me with the truth. I want to live my life as I see fit.

    • Shawn Patrick

      “It has reliably been dated to be only about 800 years old”

      I don’t believe it’s authentic either, but that’s really not true. The dating method used has legitimately been put into question.

      • gizmo118

        Why don’t you believe?

    • John P Schipsi

      @ aj1: “””The shroud of turin is a fake – period.””””. Well, then we should all go home, now that the expert in all matters; Shroud of Turin has spoken.
      I’m sorry, I try to be humble, but some of the statements by the nay-sayers are so dogmatic, yet so damned uneducated.
      All scientists, except for one devout atheist on the original STRP study, has at least left open the possibility of the Shroud of Turin being the burial cloth of Jesus. They are at least intellectually honest. Some have been converted to Christianity from atheism,
      Most, however, have concluded that””…… what caused the Shroud image cannot be explained by any natural, or known scientific process and therefore must be “supernatural” and beyond our ability to understand and therefore duplicate.”
      Come on people, at least be intellectually honest, if not with us, then with yourselves.

      • dan

        It is said the Shroud is of a man with his hands hung above his head ??? If that is the case then why has Jesus been said to have been nailed to a cross with his hands side nailed ??? So are we to believe that the BIBLE is wrong about how Jesus was executed and it was not on a cross which was used at this period of his time ???? Well come on and lets be honest then LOL

        • John P Schipsi

          @ Dan: Dan, is that a serious question?? I mean, are you being for real, or are you toying with words? Who said that the man with his hands hung above his head?? REFERENCE PLEASE! Your argument is a “STRAWMAN ARGUMENT” ( look it up ). The Romans extended the arms of the person to be crucified, by pulling them, at times, even dislocating the shoulder socket. Then, the nails were driven through what WE call the WRIST. The Hebrew word for “wrist” is translated to mean any part of the arm, from the fingertips, to the elbow joint. DO SOME RESEARCH, before posting such ridiculous comments. Dan, there is a world of information at your fingertips. Use the brain that God gave you and research. Stop taking talking points from the Huffington Post and then misquoting them here. RESEARCH!

    • gizmo118

      Duh!!! Read the latest findings by the athiests who worked on it. They took a piece of cloth that had been woven into the tapestry in one corner.by nuns because they were repairing a burn mark when the Shroud was nearly destroyed in a fire.

  • Munyoroku Ndumbi

    NASA description is similar to what the bible says.
    The largest clue to follow is the find by the NASA team of scientists who investigated this artifact. They came up with different details about the shroud of Turin. In their report, they suggested that the image was created on the fabric as a “burst of energy” went through it, which is consistent with the biblical description of the Resurrection of Jesus. According to the Bible, Jesus was raised from the dead by the Holy Ghost. The type of “power” or “energy” used for Resurrection has a specific description to it. I do not know the word in the original texts ,but the Greek translation called it “Dunamis” closely related to the English “Dynamite” Which suggest ; An explosion, a burst of energy etc. This is the shroud of Resurrection of Jesus Christ of Nazareth- The Messiah and son of the most high God.

    • gizmo118

      The fibers were shrunken by an intense flash of heat.

    • Margie Albano

      I am so thrilled to know you studied this same information. There is much more than people realize. It is astounding because the scientist all agree that there is no other explanation for the figure on the shroud than the burst of energy as only energy could have made that impression. How else do you explain a 4-D, not 3-D perfect mark emphasizing not only the features and the height and hair but also the blood markings and piercings?

      • Munyoroku Ndumbi

        Nice thoughts here.

    • Bubba

      amen

  • Mad Dog

    If you believe in and follow the commandment that forbids you to worship graven images and idols, then you will not give a rat’s you-know-what about weather this is real or not. If you do care about this and want it to be preserved and revered and all that BS, then you are in fact worshiping an image and are under the Lord’s curse. You can call me out all you want for what I just said, but those are the Lord’s words, not mine.

    • GB

      I don’t recall anyone worshiping this. They may honor it as Americans do the Flag, but its not worship.

    • John P Schipsi

      What did you say, Mad Dog??? Who said anything about “worship[ing]” the Shroud?? It’s a matter of is it, or is it not authentic. If it is authentic, then it lends credence to the scripture and the resurrection. Your argument is what’s known as a “Straw-man Argument”. Look it up, you’ll see what I mean.

      • Mad Dog

        The fact that scripture has, and will continue to play out in reality exactly as it was written is all the credence that is needed. When I see this world getting deeper and deeper in darkness, I remember that scripture tells me that things will get worse before they get better and that the kingdom of the Lord will never be destroyed but will ultimately triumph. Every day that the world at large continues to live in darkness is one day closer to the great time that is coming in which people will no longer put their faith in the false god of organized religion. See, I do not worry about what will happen. What I do know is that those who are on the side of the Lord will not perish so the next logical step would be to dedicate my life to being on the side of the Lord so that I can have the everlasting life that was promised to me. Deuteronomy 28 proves this when you read about the blessings for obedience and the curses for disobedience. The next step I took was to say to myself “What exactly are the laws and how do I follow them?” so I went to the ten commandments and started reading. The first commandment says that I am not allowed to put anyone between myself and God. this tells me to pray to God directly and not use a priest, minister, rabbi, holy man, etc. to reach the Lord because they can and do lie to me but the Lord will never lie to me so wouldn’t it make more sense to go directly to God? I mean, the Lord did in fact promise to give me every bit of wisdom I ask of him directly so an intermediary is not needed and, in fact, forbidden. Strike one against organized religion. The second commandment says that I am not allowed to worship an image before the Lord. If I know an image to be something that is used to represent but is not actually the thing itself (such as a photograph) then I am forbidden to worship or even believe in and use statues, crosses, crucifixes, rosary beads, and any other graven (which means man made) image as well as people who claim to be God’s representative but are not God. This includes the shroud of turin, which has no more significance than a burial cloth of any other human from that time, so why make a fuss about it? I take this to mean don’t worship what people tell you something is. Worship what it actually is which religion does not do. Strike two against organized religion. The third commandment says that “The lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name”. As a boy in catholic school I was always told that this means that swearing is a sin. How they arrived at that is beyond me. Misusing someone’s name means saying something about someone that is not true. Therefore, I am not allowed to lie about the Lord by saying such things as “God is in this little wafer” or “you must confess your sins to another man or the Lord will not forgive you” or even you must have water poured on your head or the Lord will not let you into heaven”. strike three against organized religion. The list goes on and on and on. I have given you a few examples to prove to you that false religion is the great whore of Babylon that is referenced in the book of revelation. Believe these words or not, but they do not belong to me. they belong to the living god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Remember: The great day of the Lord is coming (and sooner than you think). Who can stand up and say that they are, in fact, on the side of the Lord? Those that put their faith in organized religion cannot stand up.

  • Praying344

    I think it’s real, also saw “Son of God” this weekend, good movie, and I thought the man acting as Jesus did an excellent job. But needed some humor and less smutt and brutality in the movie. They need to bring it back to “The Animated Passion” and “The Miracle Maker” level with live action adult Bible movies. I for one believe The Shroud of Turnin is real and always has been. Of chorse, Happy Easter and Happy Resurrection Sunday World.:)

  • Bduh

    Real, not real what was more interesting for me was the man who actually used the shroud to show what the face looked like in real life and that was quite something to see. (by the way, it wasn’t a white man but a middle eastern looking man and not even close to the “Jesus” I grew up with but that really doesn’t play a role in my faith. It does play a role in my curiosity though how Jesus might have looked liked)

    • Liberty Valance

      Jesus was Jewish, of course he was middle eastern looking!

      • Bduh

        Try telling THAT to some “folks”….
        Having “roamed” around there for 3 months in Israel in the 80’s I learned a lot from my friends who live there.

      • John P Schipsi

        Liberty Valance: What does a “middle Easterner” look like? There are light skinned, dark skinned, medium skinned. The Jew does not look like the Arab. This is established fact. The DNA has been decoded. Go to Stanford ethnicity Research online and you will see that the Jew of the 1st Century, looks identical to the Jew of today. Of course I refer to the ethnic Jew.
        If you believe that the Jewish people look like Arabs, Iranians, etc…., then you are just plain ignorant and you don’t have an ounce of empirical evidence to back up your statement. There is so much ignorance concerning what the Ethnic Jew looks like, then and now, it’s amazing. I dare you to tell any Ethnic Jew that he is Arab looking.

    • gizmo118

      Oh yeah, the Anglo-Saxon Jesus?

  • Seederman

    “Perhaps the most compelling evidence for the shroud and the resurrection is that research has shown the body under the shroud to have dematerialized.” Oh sure…let’s see the science that shows that. I notice it is absent from the article.

    • gizmo118

      Well He had a glorified body by then.

      • gizmo118

        He didn’t use doors either. He came through the walls.

  • Brian Donnelly

    I have faith that the Shroud is real and it was created by a powerful source and burned the image into the cloth when Jesus was resurrected . Science cannot explain gravity never mind a creation from the hand of God !

  • vivian hernandez

    From the 1st century to this day? I don’t think so. This shroud is from the late 14th century. Besides, John 20:1-7 states that the head wrapping which was on our God, Lord and Savior Jesus’ face was folded up and placed apart.

  • guestgirl

    I believe it. God is real, Jesus is real. I’ve dreamed about him since I was a little girl, long before reading the Bible, and knowing about him. That is a picture of my Lord on that cloth. Most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen. I hurt for those who don’t know him, or don’t want to believe in him.

    • puttputt

      I’ll take some of the drug you are hallucinating on. Must be awesome

      • guestgirl

        I do not do drugs, sorry to hear you are a user. I am a nurse & have been several years. Maybe you should go back to college as well, instead of doing drugs. God is real, and some day the non-believers are going to regret what they believed. This world has become a nasty, evil place. God is warning us with the Blood moons… I believe in the big bang theory. God said “bang” and it was! :)

        • John P Schipsi

          Guestgirl, you are a beautiful person with an incredible Christian mind. God bless you!

      • John P Schipsi

        Puttputt, it is awesome, it’s called GRACE and you should take a great big whiff of it, because knowing that one’s sins are forgiven him/her because our Lord loves us so much that He sacrificed Himself for our salvation, is the most awesome feeling in the world!

        • randall w putnam

          No, I mean the real drugs you are on for the mental fog you run in, grace is just a figment of your super imagination. Sometimes they consider it mass hysteria, but that’s your privilege. You betcha!!!

          • John P Schipsi

            You’re entitled to your opinion, Putman. “Mass hysteria” seems to be coming from the atheists. You are all scared to death of the reality of a God Creator who judges. So, continue to live in fear continue your ad hominem attacks. I’ve not lost a minute of sleep since your slander began and I doubt that I will.
            Being a blind, atheist hater is your privilege,. You betcha!!!

    • michael1234

      you dreamt about him, therefore he must be real…great logic there

      • guestgirl

        I don’t care if you believe me or not! But believe this, your opinion won’t cause me to lose sleep tonight… I’m not crazy, I’m not on drugs. I’m a happily married woman, and a nurse. This world would be a much better place if people would allow God back in to it.

        • John P Schipsi

          Amen!

  • Andigravity

    “For starters, he says the carbon dating method used in
    1988 that pegged the shroud’s age at 600 years has been refuted time and
    time again.”

    Okay, that’s not positive evidence for anything. That’s like saying “someone claimed Leprechauns were responsible for killing this woman, but then we found evidence she might have drowned. However, it turns out they botched that examination, therefore it’s definitely Leprechauns.”

    No it isn’t. All you’ve established is that a piece of evidence you thought you had, you really don’t. Same thing here. So you thought you had a good date, but it turns out the test was compromised. You don’t conclude “therefore Jesus.” You conclude the test needs to be run again.

    “He also points to research conducted by Shroud of Turin
    Research Project in 1978 that proved it’s not a painting.”

    And yet he completely ignores forensic evidence recovered twenty years later, using more advanced sampling and analyzing techniques which were unavailable to the 1978 team and which show trace amounts of pigments and binding agents used in Medieval paint embedded in the fibers of the Shroud.

    Setting that aside, though, fantastic. He’s pointed to one thing the Shroud might not be. “I don’t know when it was made and I’m not quite sure what it is” doesn’t constitute a sound scientific argument.

    “Perhaps the most compelling evidence for the shroud and the resurrection
    is that research has shown the body under the shroud to have
    dematerialized. In other words, whoever was buried under the shroud
    wasn’t moved, but rather simply vanished…”

    Well, that’s news to me. Been able to wrap up a lot of bodies in cotton sheets and then make them dematerialize, have we?

    What evidence do we have that the image could not have been imprinted before someone simply unwrapped the body and carefully lifted it out? I’d be very curious to see the exact methodology used to make this determination, especially since an Italian scientist has been able to successfully recreate the Shroud of Turin using quite mundane means that didn’t require sudden bursts of supernatural energy or bodies vanishing into thin air.

    Those things aren’t “science” which should convince anyone of the actual origin of the shroud. If, as a matter of faith, you want to believe the Shroud of Turin is what the church claims it is, fine, but researchers have a long way to go before they can put forth anything close to a definitive answer on the origin of the Shroud of Turin.

    • gizmo118

      What pigments? The fibers were SHRUNKEN. You can actually see that under a microscope.

      • Andigravity

        Traces of red ochre and vermillion, along with a collagen tempera, were found on the cloth.

        Red ochre and vermillion are both pigments which were used during Medieval times, and egg tempera (egg whites contain collagen) would have been the binding agent of choice before the advent of oil painting.

        So he’s ignoring more recent evidence which has found traces of the type of paint commonly in use during the time period the carbon dating says the Shroud of Turin dates back to in favor of dismissing the carbon date assigned to it based on reasons that have been debunked and an older examination of the Shroud using more primitive tests which may not have been able to detect trace amounts of pigmentation later discovered.

        At that point, I would note the Italian artist who reproduced the Shroud of Turin did so by covering a model in pigment, wrapping him long enough for the pigment to soak into the cloth, then unwrapping the cloth and heating it for several hours before washing it thoroughly in an acidic solution to remove the pigment.

        The physical evidence we have gathered from the Shroud of Turin would be explained if it was created through that method.

        • gizmo118

          Total bilge.

          • Andigravity

            Yeah, I know… it’s just physical evidence.

            It doesn’t circumvent the intellect by speaking in tongues to proclaim the holy spirit and give you a feel-good affirmation of your faith.

            It just sits there as a quiet reminder that once, long ago, there used to be paint on the cloth.

        • John P Schipsi

          Antigravity. You are lying. You are a liar and you are a deceiver of the worst kind. Site your reference, or go home. Leave and go troll the skeptics blogs, where they stroke each other daily with their profound ignorance and arrogance.

          There is ZERO pigment, paint on the shroud and all your big worded mumbo jumbo BS, wont change the facts.

          SHOW ALL OF US THE REFERENCE YOU USE TO STATE THAT PAINT, PIGMENT, BLAH BLAH WAS FOUND ON SHROUD. . Put up, or shut up!

          • Andigravity

            You know, I hear they’ve made great strides in developing medicines to help with panic attacks in recent years, John. You might want to ask your doctor if one of them is right for you.

            Man, you are insecure.

            Well, I am already at home and was at the time I made my earlier remarks, but thanks to the wonder of the internet, I was able to find the site of my reference.

            It’s in Chicago. =)

    • John P Schipsi

      Antigravity: Exactly where is this evidence of “Medieval paint” found in the fibers of the shroud? You’re throwing out BS like it’s fact. You site ZERO reference and even the most hardened skeptics have long since abandoned the “Pigment, paint, yada, yada BS” long ago.
      Admit that you have denied every single piece of empirical evidence in favor of your preconceived notions and NON-facts.
      You’re a liar and I say that knowing that calling someone a liar is a huge step, but you’re not only lying to the readers of this blog, you’re lying to yourself..
      You’ve not stated a singular fact. NOT ONE!
      There are many, many, many scientists and doctors, with far more intelligence and education than you, or I possess that find the Shroud of Turing to be authentic and lending to the belief in the resurrection of Christ..

      Nothing, no amount of evidence will change the mind of the non-believer. You cite old science as though it were new. You have done nothing but issue disinformation and you damn well know it.

  • Jojo Jach

    Christ’s head was wrapped separately. From John 20: 6 & 7 “Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb. He saw the linen wrappings lying there, 7 and the cloth that had been on Jesus’ head, not lying with the linen wrappings but rolled up in a place by itself.” A one piece shroud with a head imprint?

    • Joe Paul Pelaez

      The head cloth has also survived history, and the blood stains line up exactly with the Shroud of Turin. Please google it as I do not have a reference for you right now.

  • Marilyn

    real or not, I don’t need this kind of physical evidence to give me faith in God and Jesus Christ. My faith comes from the spirit within.

  • Joe you right

    Its
    real but it is not him.

    • gizmo118

      Yeah, it’s another guy with the same name.

  • Tessy

    There is not any need for debate on the Shroud as to whether it is the image of Christ. It could be his shroud or any other man’s. We’ll never for sure know until we are dead and stand spiritually before God. The Shroud of Turin amaze’s and awe’s me in that God made this world with so many wonders. A few night’s ago as I watched the moon (and froze my buns off) I was feeling the majesty of God and all his works and it filled my heart with joy that God let me live to see such a marvelous sight. It didn’t make me believe in God any stronger though. It didn’t make my belief in anything any stronger. I admiringly believe in science. I watched men walk on the moon. Thrills and chills went through me. I wanted to be reborn and experience the moon for myself.
    I would have the same thrills and chills if I was standing before the Shroud. But… We don’t have to have signs or some form of proof anymore to make people convinced that God is here, They just are sure or they aren’t. “faith”. Small word and bigger trust. Faith and love of God is all anything, any person needs to make it through this life. Read the bible or don’t. Believe or don’t. I can’t make you believe but I wish you would read the bible. For myself, the Shroud is another wondrous mystery that will be unveiled some day.

    • youaredumbassesdisqus

      make me vomit… you idiot.. you die that’s it.. six feet under.. creamated whatever.. there isn’t anyone waiting for you… when you die.. you become worm food… assholes who think more.. are just that… assholes.. guess the feeble minded need some bs to believe in

      • Angelina33

        youaredum ,,You are so full of hate is scary. Is that what a person feels when does not believe in God ??, if so I thanks God every day to have the privilege of Faith.

      • gizmo118

        You are sad.

    • gizmo118

      How many men could have the exact same wounds? The odds are hundreds of billions to one.

  • douche

    Does it give like +10 stamina or something if you wear it?

    • gizmo118

      ?????????????

  • puttputt

    it has not been refuted other then by religious crack pots, most do believe in carbon dating other then yelling at some guy in the sky. This guy is religious figure, his right, but still fantasizes a little too much

  • youaredumbassesdisqus

    lol…. jesus… lmao….. the roman catholic church .. was developed.. by GAY MEN…. FOR PROTECTION!!!!!!!!!!!….what utter bs….. any fool.. could have drawn in feeble minds….. nuns…. lesbians…. be real here… lmao….. fools.. who believe this crap.. are just that…… feeble minded……

  • Ari Ben Gordon

    Its the real thing alright – although it is a Ufonic creation and must be treated as so – lets not get carried away with myth and the world of work within modern societies

  • puttputt

    Leonardo Davinci is probably rolling over in his grave, just saying!!!

  • gardoglee

    If you believe it is authentic, and if it has actual blood, then you need to consider a question that may come up, and which the Church must also consider. Someone will eventually try to use DNA from the shroud to establish linkage to the very extensive DNA databases which are now growing around the world. From that they will try to establish relationship to Jesus’ familial line, or dispute the origin of the shroud. And eventually, of course, someone will try to produce a clone, whether others dispute the authenticity of the shroud or not. It’s just a matter of time, so someone should start thinking now of how they will handle this when it happens.

  • TerryG

    The shroud of Turin is a fraud. If these people would take the trouble to actually read the Bible, they would not be taken in by a shroud or a ‘holy grail’, or visions of Mary, etc.

    ***Quotation from the Official King James Bible online, John 20:4-7:–

    4. So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.–5. And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.–6.Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,–

    7. And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.–

    NOTICE, these scriptures plainly state that there was no shroud covering his whole body;

    John 20:7 says that there was a napkin around his head, wrapped separately, as well as linen clothes. There is no mention of a body length shroud. Also, since he was buried, both head and body in separate cloths, why would his body be in the “Y” position, with his arms raised?

    Christians are supposed to live by faith, not by sight. Follow God’s Word, not those who look for relics to bring glory for themselves.

    • gizmo118

      READ it again in all 4 Gospels.

  • michael1234

    my religion says that your religion is wrong, therefore it must be fact

  • barry ray

    Subject is just sooo Piscean! We are in a new age. A new god will manifest, as they always do, every 2100 years or so, even if they are of the same bloodline.

  • Richard Manuel

    Let’s say it is a real thing. What proof is there that it is Jesus? Why must it be him? Personally, I think it is an ancestor of Mohammed or a descendent of the Buddha. And being as at least a few people have noted they want to believe it to be whatever is they want it to be, and thereby it is what they want it to be, I figure I should be afforded the same logic.

    Quite a few years back in my hometown there was a sighting of Mary. People came from all over to see her, but she never appeared again. However, the guy who originally saw her also owned the property she appeared on and a big field nearby that did well as a $5 per car parking lot.

    • gizmo118

      Unbelievable obtuseness.

  • Mike Rodriguez Lopez

    It’s fake and here’s why – the face, beard, and long hair that depicts Jesus was invented in Dark Age art. Jesus was made to look like Zeus with beard and long hair. Fact is that nobody knows what Jesus actually looked like.

    • Walter

      The shroud of Turin was a product of the Execution of Jacques de Molay
      head of the Knights Templar in 1350 The shroud’s Carbon Dating dated between 1260 A.D. and 1390 A.D. At the time of his death He was crucified to get him to talk. and the shroud was created by a Maillard reaction a nonenzymatic browning the same that gives steaks and bread their fake
      browning effect with the sweaty acids in his face due to his torture. The shroud looks very similar to his portrait.

  • John

    Do not believe the carbon dating numbers as anyone should realize that during a fire, new carbon is introduced to the fabric which will skew the results. As a scientist, and one who has read 4 books on the history of the shroud or “Marlyebone”, I believe it to be the real, supernatural burial shroud of Jesus. Have faith people

  • MrEveryman

    Things that lends authenticity to the Shroud are pollen and seeds from the Jerusalem area where the Shroud was made. Possibly, the pollen and seeds could be carbon dated independently. Previously, I read that blood stains on the Shroud show a man sitting up and turning. The comments on a vanishing appear to contradict this prior information. Please comment.

  • CitizenX911

    It is real. The Holy Spirit of God seared the x-ray type image into the fibers with His Holy radiation. Until man can understand the spirit, he will never understand the engine of life. Without the Spirit, there is NO life.

  • larry evan slover

    Image
    on the Cloth

    Lyrics
    and Music written by Larry Evan Slover December 2011

    All
    rights and permissions to this song belong to Amberly Tanai Slover 270 392 9877

    Phone
    270 303 4460

    Entry 14 bars

    On a night long ago, Jesus was born

    Under the star of Bethlehem, lay Jesus the Lord

    And when he left this old world, by devine holy light

    He left an image on the cloth, of how he suffered and died

    He
    is known as Jesus of Nazareth

    Born
    around five BC, as the story is told

    He
    was humilated, tortured and murdered, by roman soldiers

    When
    he was just, thirty three years old

    No
    one could imagine how Jesus suffered

    As
    his Mother Mary, watched and cried

    While
    he was led thru the streets of Jeruslem, to Calvary

    Where
    the Lord Jesus, was crusified

    But
    Jesus arose from the dead, by resurection

    Leaving
    the Sudarium, and a blood stained burial cloth behind

    And
    on that cloth, is the worlds first known photograph

    A
    historical record, of those dark and troubled times

    In
    one AD, his burial cloth appeared in Edessa Turkey

    The
    Cloth of Edessa, is the true and original name

    The
    Cloth of Edessa, and the Shroud of Turin, are the same cloth

    Only
    the name, has been changed

    For
    six hundred years, it lay hidden in a wall in Edessa

    Where
    it was finally descovered again

    It
    shows a sad and grim reminder, of what happened to Jesus

    The
    one who died, for our sins

    Radiocarbon
    14, suggest a forgery in the thirtheen century

    But
    they are wrong, about a forgery, and the date in time

    Because
    the Image on the Cloth, is a three demintional negative

    Forensic
    evidence, of that sad and awful crime

    Millions
    of people have viewed that wonderful artical of history

    For
    many centuries, it let us look upon Christ face

    It
    shows true and absolute evidence

    Of
    how that crime, had taken place

    If
    you still wonder who is on the cloth

    Take
    a long look at what you see

    More
    than likely in the end

    You
    to will believe

    On
    that tattered old cloth, is Jesus the Lord

    Understand
    that, before you die

    You
    are not looking at a fake, created by someones hands

    You’re
    looking at the actual face, of Jesus Christ

    That
    sacred cloth, covered the Blessed body of Jesus

    Almost
    two thousand, years ago

    After
    all of it’s great trails and tribulations

    It’s
    still, putting on, the worlds,
    greatest show

    On a night long ago, Jesus was born

    Under the star of Bethlehem, lay Jesus the Lord

    And when he left this old world, by devine holy light

    He left his Image, on that
    Cloth, that dark sacred night

    Tag in six bars

  • larry evan slover

    The image on the cloth is Jesus the Lord. It makes no difference if you believe that or not. It is the real thing. Pay attention to the words to the song.

  • Ebed Tsaphan

    Genesis 1:14 And ELOHIYM said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for Moedim, and for days, and years:

    Psa 104:19 He Appointed the Moon for Moedim: the sun knoweth his going down.

    Moedim – appointed times, meetings, feasts

    The diameter of the Moon is 2159.14062 miles.. the verse number of the scriptures consecutive by miles from Genesis 1:1 that this number lands in, Is >

    The 2160th vs. Exodus 23:15
    Thou shalt keep the feast of unleavened bread: (thou shalt eat Unleavened Bread seven days, as I commanded thee, in the time Appointed of the New mOOn Abib; for in it thou camest out from mitsrayim: and none shall appear before Me empty

    Strongs Chodesh 1) the New Moon 20x, month

    The circumference of the Earth north to south through the poles is 24,859.82 miles, the verse number that this number lands in, is

    The 24860th vs. Mark 15:33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the Whole EARTH/Ghay until the ninth hour.

    Strongs Ge/Ghay ~ Earth 188x

    23:15 > Unleavened Bread > New Moon
    15:33 > This verse Occurred on Passover > Earth

    The diameter of the Moon without the decimal cyclical through the 31,102 verses in the scriptures

    215914062/31102 ~ 3978th vs. Numbers 9:12
    They shall leave none of it unto the Morning, nor break any bone of it: according to all the ordinances of ‘The Passover’ they shall keep it.

    and the same with the circumference of the Earth

    2485982/31102 ~ 28924th vs. 2 Corinthians 7:7
    And not by his coming only, but by the consolation wherewith he was comforted in you, when he told us your earnest desire, your Mourning, your fervent mind toward me; so that I rejoiced the More.

    9:12 > Passover, Morning
    7:7 > Mourning > > > and More ~ Moedim2014 Blogspot com

  • Matthew

    Carbon dating on the Shroud of Turin places it between 1200-1300 AD. It is very old. But it is not old enough to be from Jesus Christ.

    • Voice Of Reason

      WRONG! THey did a scientific study a few years ago after 1988 that showed that the piece that was tested in ’88 was a piece of different cloth from the middle ages due2 a fire,that was interwoven with the original Shroud’s cloth. They looked at it through a microscope and saw rhat the threads were different.. Please stop putting out misinformed information jsut cause ur closed minded.. Please study some more

  • Gauldax

    Until we can find a way to time travel back to the time of Christ there will be no physical evidence of his existence, it is all a matter of faith. If you are a true believer of Christ and the shroud then no rebuttal will change your mind. If you are a skeptic then nothing short of rock solid undeniable scientific evidence will convince you of his existence or that the shroud is genuine. There are bigger things in the world to debate than something where you basically can not change the other persons mind.

    • Margie Albano

      One thing all can agree on is that Jesus in fact was very real. There was more written about Jesus during that time than had been written about Socrates and Plato combined times ten. No one disputes their existence. Jesus is not only found in the Bible he is found in the Koran and amongst historical Roman records and Jewish records. No one denies the historical significance of Jesus. You know in your own heart what you will and will not accept as to his birth, death, and resurrection. Faith in Jesus comes with your own free will to accept it, that is why it is called faith. I exercise my free will to have faith and to believe even when others may persecute and ridicule me for it. I can live with that what I can’t and won’t live without is HIM. No offense to a non-believer but I pray that I offend you enough to make you curious to look further into where my absolute certainty comes from. What ever could it be? hmmmmmmm. Seek and ye shall find.

  • Pansy Blackwell

    It is not the real thing. God spoke against graven images of any kind. Period. Take a break you Bible illiterates out there.

    • gizmo118

      Graven images? What?

      • Pansy Blackwell

        Read Psalm 31:6, among the shortest verses out there, relating to this subject. If you are w/o a bible, there’s the internet. Anything that you are in reverence, awe, fear, respect, bow down to and worship. That is how you can tell. Really not all that complicated. There was nothing left behind in ancient times to warrant any kind of respect. Even if the so-called Shroud of Turin, is real or imagined, forget aabout it, place it in a sock or linen closset, and just forget about it. It means nothing.

        • gizmo118

          Whew, the denseness is incredible.

          • Pansy Blackwell

            Those are the cold, hard, facts, my friend. Take it or leave it.

    • Voice Of Reason

      Im sorry but ur twisting the Scripture. Grave images applies 2 only man made images. The burial cloth is the REAL image of Jesus 2 prove 2 the world that HE IS REAL.. Big difference. I sense anger in ur tone but it dont suprise me cause the actual science u belive in is the same science that just proved Christians argument and hard 4u2 deal with..Dont u c the hypocrisy? UR the 1 whose illterate.. Dont b a soar loser. Just take the conclusion like an open mindeed person

      • Pansy Blackwell

        graven images applies to all objects relating to the human figure

  • Lynn Point

    This is not “science.” This is someone persuaded first and foremost by his religion, and he ignores several facts about the shroud. For example, he claims that the carbon dating done in 1988 that placed the origin of the shroud in the era c. 1300s has been “refuted.” This is totally bogus…to the point of being an out-right lie. The so-called refutations of the 1988 analysis have themselves been thoroughly refuted…and actually some of those refutations Philips refers to have been revealed to be frauds.
    Next, consider the simple geometry of the shroud. If a burial cloth were placed over an actual person’s face and head in a draping manner as would take place if it was placed over both the front and back, wouldn’t it drape down along the side of the corpse’s head? Wouldn’t it subsequently show a sort of flat image of a round head, including the sides of the head? Yet the shroud doesn’t. Some people claim the shroud shows a 3-dimensional image of body, but these people don’t understand what that means. The shroud actually shows a TWO dimensional image, as if it were a painting.
    Also think about this: The shroud doesn’t enter documented history until the 1300s (consistent with the carbon dating, btw) when it is referred to by the religious authorities as an admitted forgery. Furthermore, there are no references to the shroud in the nominally contemporary Biblical account of the Resurrection…but wouldn’t you think such a miraculous device would have done so?
    Also consider this. Corpses do not bleed. A beating heart is required to pump blood in order to make a wound bleed copiously as the shroud seems to indicate. If this was indeed the burial shroud of Jesus, the evidence of so much blood actually suggests that HE WAS NOT DEAD when He was wrapped in it. His resurrection, therefore, may be nothing more than the coolness of the tomb slowing His metabolism to the point where His wounds coagulated and He subsequently revived quite naturally…not supernaturally. Put THAT in your Easter basket to think about…

    • gizmo118

      A three dimensional image. Duh! blood pools after a body is dead. The blood you see dripped down His arms.Forensic pathologists said it was perfect and consistant with the wounds.
      Wasn’t dead? A soldier stuck a spear into his rib cage to see if he had died.Blood and serum dripped out. Had his heart been beating it wound have shot out in a gush…

      • Lynn Point

        Cool, glad you agree about that not being a 3-dimensional image. And right, blood pools, it doesn’t drain. It would have pooled towards His back (or remained in His body) and not bled from His front, as the shroud suggests, if He had been dead. As for being dead when He was stabbed? Perhaps He was just unconscious. Puncture wounds are also not necessarily gushing wounds either, but tend to be more self-sealing, as opposed to gashes or tears.
        The thing is, you believe in this myth because you WANT to believe in it. No amount of evidence will dissuade you, and you’ll grasp at every half-truth to support you. If you want to have “faith” then HAVE FAITH. Stop relying on false science.

        • gizmo118

          You are hopeless.

    • Eagle Eye

      Didn’t they wash the bodies before wrapping them up?

    • gizmo118

      Show us your FACTS.

  • Brian Estopare

    they say that prince Willam was clone from the blood of the shroud

    • gizmo118

      No, that was Obama. Whew!!

  • Robert Morrison

    The one thing that’s for sure science is always correcting it self from errors it has made in the past.. Science is not 100 % right. Enough said. Its call faith and its yours to choose or not and arguments wont solve anything. I choose to believe and except Jesus Christ as my savior and nothing anyone can say we sway me from my faith.

    • Robert Morrison

      will=we

    • Jaeger19ultima

      Which is why for a good amount of people it’s enough to not sway them from their non religious belief.. And why should it be 100%? Life isn’t easily explainable but we unearth more and more information constantly. I have no problem with religion on the basis of it being someone’s lifestyle or culture but it’s an issue when people try to take it a step further by using science to prove their faith. Why do the faithful (who don’t need to explain how their god is created mind you nor how the universe was created by a god much less their faith’s) try to justify their occupational field by hinging on that. At best the explanations would hinge on a deistic viewpoint. All that aside the only person that can sway you from your faith is yourself if you so choose to wake up one day and not need it anymore..

      • Voice Of Reason

        Its the the non believers who need 2 wake up because no matter how much evidence there is in this reasonable, rational, objective conclusion, they still WONT believe because alot of thier “belief” is really SUBJeCTIVE and closed minded. I thought science was 2 b open minded n objective or does that only apply when others belief is proven wrong through the same scientific studies that proves them right? hypocrites

      • Robert Morrison

        I didn’t mean that science proves me wrong or right, Nor did I mean for science to prove your right or wrong. The word faith is a powerful word and I am lead by my soul and the word of God and I am not here to tell you what or who you should follow. My point is science doesn’t prove or Disprove anything. The faithful don’t need science as the non believer does to prove them right or wrong, Because we have Faith. The non believe needs to use science to justify to them self’s that there is no god. Have you ever been in a situation where you said Please God help me. If so That’s something deep in your soul telling you that there is something that is unexplained greater than the logic of science.

  • Timmy

    none of this matters. if the shroud is real, it can’t save people. it’s something that’s precious to christians. It’s just a piece of cloth to the rest of the world and…does it really matter what they think? lol Our faith is not that vulnerable..

  • Bubba

    the Shoud of Turin is the actual burial cloth of Jesus Christ. yes I believe it really is!

    • Bubba

      why wouldn’t Jesus Christ leave His burial cloth here on earth to prove that He is the Son of God… It makes sense…

  • Bruce Braden

    If the shroud of Turin is supposed to be the burial cloths of Jesus, why in the gospels of Luke and John does Peter not see anything on the linens he finds inside the tomb? Were there images on those, the gospels would have certainly said so. Would have added credence to claims of resurrection/miracles afoot. Hence, Turin cloths may have some image on them, but it is not Jesus’s.

    • Voice Of Reason

      How do u know? Were u there..Did u not see the video? Pretty arrogant

      • Bruce Braden

        Arrogant, Scott! I just reported what the New Testament reports. If anyone is arrogant, it is they who say the gospels are infallible. And, no, the gospel writers were not there either! Yet, millions, billions through the years have taken their word, well, as gospel? Yet, the passion, death, and resurrection accounts are replete with contrasting and contradictory details. Find the one gospel wherein the “good thief” is saved by not reviling Jesus, while two other gospels have both reviling Jesus. I sought. I found. Is that not what we were advised to do: “Seek and ye shall find.” Doesn’t mean I or you will always like what you will find. Long ago, I would have written what you wrote.

        • Voice Of Reason

          A Jan 20, 2005 paper in the professional journal ThermoChimica Acta by Dr. Ray Rogers, retired Fellow with the Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory and lead chemist with the original science team STURP (the 1978 Shroud of Turin Research Project, involving approximately 35 scientists directly examining the Shroud for five days), has proven conclusively that the sample cut from The Shroud of Turin in 1988 was taken from an area of the cloth that was re-woven during the middle ages. Here are some excerpts:

          “Pyrolysis-mass-spectrometry results from the sample area coupled with microscopic and microchemical observations prove that the radiocarbon sample was not part of the original cloth of the Shroud of Turin. The radiocarbon date was thus not valid for determining the true age of the shroud.”

          “The shroud was badly damaged in a church fire in 1532 AD. Nuns patched burn holes and stitched the shroud to a reinforcing cloth that is now known as the Holland cloth.” This probably occurred in 1534.

          “As part of the shroud of turin research project (STURP), I took 32 adhesive-tape samples from all areas of the shroud and associated textiles in 1978.” “It enabled direct chemical testing on recovered linen fibers and particulates”.

          “If the shroud had been produced between 1260 and 1390 AD, as indicated by the radiocarbon analyses, lignin should be easy to detect. A linen produced in 1260 AD would have retained about 37% of its vanillin in 1978… The Holland cloth, and all other medieval linens gave the test [i.e. tested positive] for vanillin wherever lignin could be observed on growth nodes. The disappearance of all traces of vanillin from the lignin in the shroud indicates a much older age than the radiocarbon laboratories reported.””The dye found on the radiocarbon sample was not used in Europe before about 1291 AD and was not common until more than 100 years later.” “Specifically, the color and distribution of the coating implies that repairs were made at an unknown time with foreign linen dyed to match the older original material.” “The consequence of this conclusion is that the radiocarbon sample was not representative of the original cloth.”

          “The combined evidence from chemical kinetics, analytical chemistry, cotton content, and pyrolysis-mass-spectrometry proves that the material from the radiocarbon area of the shroud is significantly different from that of the main cloth. The radiocarbon sample was thus not part of the original cloth and is invalid for determining the age of the shroud.”A significant amount of charred cellulose was removed during a restoration of the shroud in 2002.” “A new radiocarbon analysis should be done on the charred material retained from the 2002 restoration.”The burial is consistent with ancient Jewish burial customs in all respects, including the use of cave-tombs, attitude of the body (hands folded over loins), and types of burial cloths. The Sindon (Shroud) enveloped the body. The Sudarium was a face-cloth used to cover the face out of respect during removal from the cross through entombment. It was then removed and placed to one side. There was also a chin-band holding the mouth closed. The Othonia were bandages used to bind the wrists and legs. All are mentioned in the New Testament and evidenced on the Cloth. Such cloths are spoken of in the Misnah – oral traditions of the Rabbis written down in the second and third century.

          The Cave-Tombs were carved out of sides of limestone hills. The presence of Calcium Carbonate (limestone dust) on the Cloth was noted by Dr. Eugenia Nitowski (Utah archaeologist) in her studies of the cave tombs of Jerusalem. Optical Engineer Sam Pellicori noted in 1978 the presence of dirt particles on the nose as well as on the left knee and heel. Prof. Giovanni Riggi noted burial mites. Dr. Garza-Valdes discovered oak tubules (microscopic splinters) in the blood of the occipital area (back of the head) as well as natron salts. Traces of aloe and myrrh have also been identified on the Cloth. These are consistent with Jewish burial customs of antiquity.The images are scorch-like, yet not created by heat, and are a purely surface phenomenon limited to the crowns of the top fibers. The Shroud is clearly not a painting; no evidence of pigments or media was found. The blood was on the Cloth before the image (an unlikely way for an artist to work). There is no outline, no binders to hold paint, no evidence that paint, dye, ink, or chalk created the images, and there are no brush strokes. According to world-renowned artist Isabel Piczek, the images have no style that would fit into any period of art history. The images show perfect photo-negativity and 3-dimensionality. It is not a Vaporgraph or natural result of vapors.

          Note: some microscopic particles of paint exist on the Shroud, but these do not constitute the image. During the Middle Ages, a practice called the “sanctification of paintings” permitted about 50 artists to paint replicas of the Shroud and then lay their paintings over the Shroud to “sanctify” them. This permitted contact transfer of particles, which then migrated around the cloth with the folding and rolling of the Shroud when it was opened for exhibit and closed again afterwards.

    • gizmo118

      So you were there? You know!

  • Bubba

    I don’t understand, how an atheist doesn’t believe in God. because creation is all around you, wouldn’t it be easier to believe in things seen yet not seen. because it takes faith to believe in things unseen!

  • Dave Wilber

    What I see in the Shroud of Turin is an image of a man with long hair. What did Paul say? he said, “If a man has long hair, shame unto him. A woman’s hair is her crowning glory.”

    • Voice Of Reason

      Its the same Paul who proclaims that Jesus was and is The Christ

  • John Clancy

    Lets face it. The deniers on this board are far too conflicted to believe in the SOT as the body of Christ when they see their messiah every other day on tv golfing or lying from the White House.

  • dan

    You all bicker and fuss about something that need not matter !!!! You believe that the one and only sees you in his light and for what ??? You do not treat man with kindness in my eyes . You fools !!!! You have angered the one and only time and time again only to bring a final judgment upon you all . You have idolized and forsaken the truth and the meaning for which all sins were forgiven . You will beg for your very souls and flesh and cling to your material greed . One shall not be granted access to the Kingdoms of all Kingdoms with a heart so black and vile !!!!! The very foundation for which you have been allowed to live is crumbling with darkness and disease !!!!!! Your desire for truth cannot be had with anything that can be seen or touched . You must close your eyes to see where you are going in this world . Be not blinded by truth or lies because it does not belong in your heart to begin with . Your faith is neither real or imagined because it does not exist in his world .

    • gizmo118

      Dan, get help.

  • Bruce Braden

    In the gospels of Luke and John, Peter sees Jesus’s burial clothes lying inside the tomb, no images noted. Don’t know what is on the Shroud of Turin, or where it came from, but according to these gospels, not Jesus’s burial garb.

  • JJ Helna

    So why wouldn’t a loving Christ leave us a “snapshot” of Himself?

  • denynot

    Christos Anesti! Christ has risen! Orthodox Christians celebrate the glory of the Lord without worrying about the authenticity of every “relic” in the world==we have faith! “I believe in ONE GOD, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible”! Blessed Easter to all believers, and goodness and mercy to ALL!

  • DungenessSam

    If one WANTS to “believe” it’s real then you think it’s real…..If you use your brain then you just hope the wingnuts go away.

    • Voice Of Reason

      It seems the nay sayers WONT believe the non biased science and common sense behind the conclusion of its authenticity when it applies to something they blatantly REFUSED 2 believe regardless of a thorough objective SCIENTIFIC conclusion but are very vocal when the very science they believe in proves them right. It seems they wanna pick and choose when 2 believe in science and when not2.. Please be more consistent. Either u believe in science or u dont. It shows the true colors of those who dont beleive in something that cant b xpalined by science but is the same scientific methods that concludes it’s something that goes beyond human understanding using rational and deductive reasoning.. Pathetic.

  • ELVIS PRESLEY

    WHAT ABOUT THE BLOOD TO THE NA-SAYERS?

    • Abusoru007

      Simple. All you have to do is cut yourself and apply blood to the shroud. Not exactly rocket science.

    • Guy Brohski

      There’s no Jesus DNA to compare it to, so there is no proof. And it’s “nay-sayers”, btw.

  • craiggnt

    So we now for fact from evidence of ancient Bibles that the last twelve verses of the Gospel of Mark were the work of a scribe copying the Bible adding his own Harry Potter story. The original Bibles ended with the woman running from the tomb. The last 12 verse cover resurrection,a walking dead Jesus, poisonous snakes , ascension and all the other BS . This is fact. Many parts of the Bible are the same way,written by scribes copying the Bible. We have 6700 copies of ancient Bibles or parts of them. We know what they say and know many things were changed or added depending on the literacy of the scribe.A conservative estimate says that of these 6700 Bibles there are more differences in them, then all the words in the New Testament. This is from Biblical scholars (Christians). The Gospels tell different stories about Jesus death and resurrection and do not agree on what day Jesus died on nor what his last words were. This doctor has no proof of anything. Anyone can say the test were wrong,creationist have been doing it for years. He is the one with no proof. Except for the Gospels which were not written by Paul,Mark ……. but many decades or hundreds of years after Jesus. There are no contemporary recordings of a man named Jesus who did magic tricks. In the Bible only one Apostle had contact with Jesus and that was Jesus as a ghostly figure. How do you make a first hand account of some one if you never met him?

    • gizmo118

      So you are a great expert? Tell us what makes you a pathologist, scientist, histrian, biblical scholar, theologian, etc.

  • Guy Brohski

    Anyone proclaiming that the Shroud is authentic is wacko. There is no proof, plain and simple. Furthermore, there is no DNA from Jesus to compare it to. You can believe whatever you’d like, but remember that there are people who believe Elvis and Tupac are still alive, and they’ll argue until their face is blue that their opinion is fact.

    • gizmo118

      Dumbth

  • Anthony Freeman

    First of All – Jesus is NOT God. He is the Son of God. The word son translated means “creation” He is the Creation of God. Time and Time again (7,000 times) the Bible says “Jehovah is my name and I Am God”. Jesus was known to be God until 325 years after he died. A group of men decided to say he God and passed down this farce. 175 years later Muslims claimed Allah was God and handed down this farce. In the 40’s Nation of Islam claimed a Human was God and passed down this farce. The word Father means “Life Giver” So Jehovah is the Father. Jesus is the Son. Creator and Creation. The Bible was right. “They will venerate the Creation INSTEAD of the Creator!”

  • grmtnmn

    In America we use a standard of proof called “beyond a reasonable doubt” to take away people’s property, liberty, and even their very lives. If that same standard is applied to the scientific evidence of authenticity of the Shroud of Turin, the only verdict possible is that it is indeed a genuine piece of physical proof of the resurrection of Jesus Christ left behind by GOD for all of the doubting Thomas’s who follow the first doubting Thomas – the apostle. No ancient fraudster could have produced a fraud that could not be exposed as a counterfeit by 21st century science. That is simply “unreasonable” to conclude in the face of overwhelming forensic evidence like this.

  • Miki Rutter

    TO ALL THE NON-BELIEVERS, JESUS IS RETURNING, WAIT AND SEE!!!!!

  • grmtnmn

    The shroud is genuine. If you apply the standard of “proof beyond a reasonable doubt” you must conclude it’s authenticity. No one from ancient times could have produced a counterfeit that modern science could not identify as a counterfeit with this kind of forensic detail. In this case, modern science cannot tell what put the image in the cloth yet says that based on their highly educated guess, it appears a large energy source like one might imagine would be necessary to raise a dead man to life. It would take an unreasonable doubt to conclude the shroud could even possibly be a fake.

  • foosnut

    Why are the images arms so long and not inporportion to a real live person. I ask everyone here to try to duplicate the pose. Covering the same area with your hands. Lay on your back and relax. You are a dead body, bend your arms so your elbows are on the ground and then cover your private area. Can you with your arms bent at the same angle as the shroud? Either it is real and Jesus had really long arms (of different length) or it is a fake.
    I go with fake.

    • John P Schipsi

      I would suggest that if you were suspended by your arms for hours on end, after they were stretched so far and with so much force that the shoulders were dislocated. That your arms would appear just a long and disjointed.
      The Romans would actually tie a rope around the wrists of the person to be crucified and they would would ue tow soldiers on each side to pull on the ropes, thereby dislocating the shoulders. This caused and extreme elongation of the arms. Read Plitahny’s & Josephus’s accounts of Roman Crucifixion. It will leave no doubt in your mind as to why the arms are so long. So what you think is evidence against the shroud’s authenticity, is actually evidence for its authenticity.

  • mel023

    The one big objection I have to the shroud being authentic is the image itself. Okay, it’s 2 objections but they’re both with the image itself. The description of the individual depicted on the shroud is said to be approximately 5’9″ tall. This is exceptionally tall for a 1st century Judean who were closer to about 5’6″ or even shorter. Even today, some 2,000 years later, 5’9″ is just about average for an adult male. Secondly, the image doesn’t look anywhere near like a 1st century male of Semitic ancestry. He looks more like all the Medieval and Renaissance European paintings of Christ. Other than those points, I have no problem with it being authentic.

  • Michael Cookson

    All one has to know, is that the good doctor is a catholic! That there alone eliminates him from an unbiased opinion! Don’t care that he’s a doctor! When you profess a faith, your ability to think clear and honestly is corrupted!

    • gizmo118

      So Billy Graham is also a fraud?

      • Michael Cookson

        I didn’t call him a fraud! I wrote that he is eliminated from having a unbiased opinion! That’s not fraud! Get your words straight! As for Graham, this story had nothing to do with him!

    • John P Schipsi

      So if the Doctor were an atheist, would he be disqualified by the same standard you use to disqualify that Catholic? Of course the atheist would have to be disqualified, due to his bias. Is it not possible, Michael Cookson, that the Catholic doctor/scientist could be unbiased in his scientific study?

      • Michael Cookson

        Your argument is without merit! The shroud is a catholic relic! The doctor could be of any other religious persuasion, including an atheist or agnostic! The fact that he is catholic, makes him biased! If the doctor had been Jewish, it would carry more weight! If the Doctor was an atheist and he believed that it was real, that would carry a lot of weight!

        • John P Schipsi

          I suppose that your argument suggests that no one would, or could be qualified to conduct an unbiased analysis, given that everyone has a predisposed notion that would contaminate their investigation. That’s an opinion and you are entitled to it, but it’s not backed by empirical evidence. All scientists, without a single exception, have religious beliefs , be they pro, or anti God, Catholic, or Atheist, Deist, or Agnostic. Atheism is a religion ( look it up ). So I have more faith in the intellectual honesty of man, than do you. Like President Ronald Reagan jokingly said to the doctors, before being wheeled into surgery, ( this is after being shot by Hinkle ): “Please tell me that you are all Republicans!?” He was joking, but it does speak well to the bias to which you refer.

          • Michael Cookson

            You can suppose all you want my friend! You would be wasting your time! I for one, do not believe that the shroud is Jesus’s burial cloth! If you want to believe in it, that’s your right! However, science has already eliminated it as real or belonging to that time period! In fact, science has dated it to the time the shroud first appeared around the 1300! If the Vatican really wanted to put to rest this argument, they would turn it over to scientist for further testing! The so-called blood stains could have their DNA extracted, settling once and for all what type of person’s image is shown on the cloth! Is it an Israeli or, as I suspect, a european man!

  • mark verrell

    i dont know i dont buy it the shoud of turin it is not the real thing dont care what the doctor says

    • gizmo118

      Don’t bother with any facts. I hope you never vote.

  • gtx446

    IF NO ONE COULD NOT DISPROVE THAT IT’S NOT FAKE,PROVES TO ME THAT IT’S REAL!!!!!!

  • wing_ding

    What’s the confusion? It’s a fake as has been demonstrated … so deal with it.

  • Corey

    I was watching this and I noticed how the image of the shroud shows Jesus’s hair in perfect proportion at the side of his head. Now what is the problem with this? The theory of gravity. If Jesus were laying as he said his hair would spectrum out from his head like an upside down rainbow

    • Corey

      What I mean, his hair would not stay perfectly at his side because of gravity

      I wish I was there to see him stutter thinking about how to answer this question

      • John P Schipsi

        Corey, when you lay on your bed, with your arm to your side, is your arm suspended in air, therefore defying the “theory of gravity”? No, it’s resting on the same bed that the rest of you is resting on. I am shocked by the lack of forethought that goes into some of these posts.

        • Corey

          John what you say makes no sense, it isnt logical. If his hair was stained with blood that would not just exclude gravity. Gravity would still exist.

          Also the picture of jesus as we know it today is a rip off of zues, the greek god. If that really was jesus it would not look like that

          • John P Schipsi

            Corey, where did I say that His hair, being soaked in blood which then dried, would “exclude gravity”? I said what I meant and that is that hair, soaked in blood which then dries would not be as affected by gravity, as would limp, soft hair. Gravity still existed none-the-less. Here is a little experiment for you to do; Get a can of Beef Blood (sold in some stores) soak your hair, or longer hair from a wig. Soak that hair in blood. Allow blood to dry for about 12 hours. Now hold said wig outstretched and watch in amazement as hair stays stiff and straight. Gravity is still trying to pull down on said hair, but hair resists because it is bound by the bonding agent of dried blood. (refer to the arm on your bed argument that I gave in my last rebuttal to you ) I’m not sure that we have a picture of Jesus. DO you have one to share with me? If you are referring to artists representations of what they BELIEVE Jesus looked like, then you’ll have to take it up with the artists. Are your referring to the 3D facial representation that has derived from the image on the Shroud? If so, that image represents a First century Jewish Male who was on the tall side, arms pulled out of their sockets at the shoulders, therefore elongated, long hair by today’s standards, a beard that matches the standard Jewish male beard. ZEUS is a FICTIONAL character. Please Corey, think about what you are saying. Jesus is an HISTORICAL figure, Zeus is FICTIONAL, therefore, it would be Zeus’s image that was ripped off from Jesus. C’mon, dude, get real!!

          • Corey

            Seriously? I dont believe the Christian bible and yet I know more than you do about your own religion. Jesus image today is a direct rip off of the way the Greeks thought of zues to look, learn hot to do a google search.

            Its pointless to debate with you about this because you dont need logic to believe something.

          • Corey

            Also you are taking my comments and over exaggerating them. What I said was that the bloody hair would not of effected gravity to any extent

          • John P Schipsi

            Ummm, no such thing as “OVER EXAGGERATING”. And your statement that “…the bloody hair would not “of” [have] effected gravity to any extent.” makes ZERO sense. NON, it’s a nonsense statement. I think you are trying to spell phonetically, e.g., “OF” instead of “HAVE”. Corey, please stay in school, or go back if you’ve left. Take another 20 years to add some wisdom to match your age and then come back and play with the big boys. You’ve wasted my time and the time of the good reader and contributors of this blog.
            I wish you a happy journey through life. remember that I told you this. You will have to trip over thousands of CROSSES on your way to hell. It’s never too late until you draw your last breath, your heart stops and your brain waves flat-line. So I suggest that you get into the first line, this side of hell, that offers you salvation through Jesus Christ. You should tremble in fear at the thought of an eternity in hell. But we all have to make our own choices. God bless and please increase in your education.

          • Corey

            Ha you say that I’m random, your the one scrambling around looking for a logical defense. You have commented basically harassing anyone who disagrees with the shroud.

            You dont even say why its my gravity theory is non sense, you just say “makes ZERO sense.” A complete idiot offers a theory then no data to back it up.

            Also doesn’t the bible say something (actually a lot of things) about not judging others? You saying all that crap about me going to hell is extremely judgmental. If I’m going to hell I will meet you there because Jesus said “Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

            And you do not know anything about him, Christianity is about sharing “The good word” not attacking people and judging that they are on their way to hell. You can study the bible all you want you will never understand this so… Do you really know Jesus? If you think you do you do not show it

          • Corey

            Oh and by the way. You are right, I dont know the face of Jesus is a remake of the Greek god image of Zues. That is just a theory by almost every Christian scientist (Scientists that study Jesus’s life) The truth is that we have no clue what Jesus looked like, how could we? So the fact that the shroud looks like what we think Jesus looks like today goes against the shroud.

            Thats why I said do a google search on it, but your probably going to text back with another anti Jesus message (You dont live by Jesus’s words, you are a bigger hypocrite then the rest of us)

          • Corey

            You do judge people, you deliberately attack any views that don’t coincide with your own. Don’t deflect your anger on to me. You are the one who has anger issues and you constantly look for outlets to unload your own problems on to someone else.If you don’t believe me look at all your response, you dont try to understand, you dont respect the others point of view.

            I’m just telling you. You can work on it or not.

          • John P Schipsi

            Corey, I was trying to help u understand a simple line of reasoning and argument. You’re all over the place. You presented no “Theory” about gravity, you presented a false argument about something to do with gravity.
            JUDGEMENT: “Judge not, lest you be judged, for with the measure you judge others, you will be judged” I did not judge you, Corey, in fact I told you that if you accept Christ, you’ll go to heaven. If you don’t, then you’ll go where the bible says thse who do not accept Christ wil go. IT IS THE BIBLE AND GOD THAT/WHO JUDGE YOU, NOT I.
            You shouldn’t be so defensive and angry toward constructive criticism. How else would you expect to learn? Would I be doing you a favor by telling you to keep doin g what you are doing? NO! You’re very angry for some reason. You put forth preposterous notions and ideas and then you get defensive and angry when the idea you propose is way out of line.

            Your “ZEUS” idea is a prime example of your backward argumentation. I simply don’t have time to argue such foolishness and I wish I never challenged you to think in the first place.
            Continue on as you have been. You’ll find no judgement from me. God bless you.

            Sorry, but if you cannot handle the heat, then get out of the kitchen.

          • John P Schipsi

            Corey, are you serious? You state that you know more about Christianity, because of what YOU proclaim Jesus’ image is “today” VS. Zeus?
            I really hate to say this, Corey, but you’re delusional. First, I think you are at most 15-16 years old, you know absolutely nothing about what you are talking about. DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT LINEAR ARGUMENT? You’re all over the place. This “ZEUS Vs. Jesus’ Image” hangup you’re on, is your latest tangent and attempt to confuse the issue. I would love to debate you on “debate. c o m”. It would be no challenge. Because you are obviously a child, masquerading as an adult, I refuse anymore interaction with you on this subject. I’ll tell you what, go worship Zeus, Hercules, hell, Justin Bieber for all I care. I am in a fight of wits with a very obviously unarmed CHILD!

    • John P Schipsi

      Unless, of course, His hair were hardened by being soaked in blood and dried stiff.. Oooops, sorry for those pesky facts that keep getting in the way of your losing argument. Oh, one more thing, the “theory of gravity, as you put it, would only apply, if the hair were suspended in air, above the shroud portion below the head. How much hair are we talking about? What is the volume of His hair to open space in the Shroud ratio?? Do you know?? You really need to think these things through before posting. It makes you look insincere.

  • Mac

    You people are funny. Both sides arguing…do ANY of you think you will convince the other side? Religion is the reason for the quote

    “For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don’t believe, no proof is possible.”-Stuart Chase

    For all of your supposed wit and wisdom, if you can’t see that this quote never rings more true than in such a debate, your words…on BOTH sides, are meaningless and instead, great wastes of time. Why not take a second, and get to know or find commonality in your fellow man? You disagree about religion, we GOT that…but instead, try to find COMMON ground? I know you all share it, you just can’t stop arguing long enough to find it. The supposed teaching of jesus (in their BEST light) were about man respecting, loving, and coming together. I myself won’t say here if I am a believer or a non, but I do know that loving one another is a message being which we all can get. So…shut your yappers, love your family and LOVE EACH OTHER DAMMNIT! (Jesus didn’t say that I don’t think, but if he were here now, he probably would have! lol)

    • John P Schipsi

      Why are you here doing the very thing that you say cannot be done. If you truly believe that no one can help convince another of the futility of their position, why are you here, trying to persuade us that you are correct?? Hmmm….me thinks me smells a hypocrite.

      • Mac

        My position? That people should communicate instead of attack? Oh wait, maybe you were too busy attacking to get it.

        • John P Schipsi

          First, MAC, stop with the strawman argument, I attacked no one!, Secondly, if your position is/was as you just stated, then why didn’t you say so.

          Here is a quote from your original statement, where you suggest that “people should communicate instead of attack: You said; “”” So…shut your yappers, love your family and LOVE EACH OTHER DAMMNIT!””” ! That’s an “attack” by your standards. Also, you don’t referee this forum. people communicate in all manners and dispositions, we are not robots, nor are we drones, (most of us aren’t, anyway). Healthy debate from opposing viewpoints is healthy. If you don’t like it, go elsewhere. I am certain that there is a blog out there somewhere, where everyone passes out conciliatory compliments and agrees on everything, but this is not one of them. You know the old saying: “…..religion and politics are the most hotly debated subjects known to man. We can all sing Koom-By-Ah, but I doubt that would ever rise to the level of debate.

          BTW, your post was an attack on me and I don’t mind a damned bit. I’m am sure you’re a decent man and good person. That you happen to disagree with me is inconsequential.

  • Skarekrow

    Well I have to say after reading all the comments I am still inclined to believe that evolution is the creator, How am I expected to believe in a book that in most cases is the only record of what happened in those stories. I have a real issue with believing in history that has been written down in one book. So the debate goes on please continue.

    • John P Schipsi

      You are free to believe as you will. No one has been dragged, kicking and screaming into heaven. alternatively, I would suggest that many have been dragged, kicking and screaming into hell.

  • CitizenX911

    The Shroud testifies of the Resurrectionis and is real, likewise AETHISTS are real too. “Father, Forgive them, they know not what they do.”

    • Corey

      So your comparing yourself to be of equal sinlessness as Jesus when you say “Father, Forgive them, they know not what they do.” Pretty sure thats a sin

      • John P Schipsi

        Uhmm, no “COREY” or did you not see the QUOTATION marks ( They look just like this “”””””” ) that CitizenX911 placed at the beginning and end of his quote? What are you anyway, a 5 year?? I thought you had to be at least 13 to post on this blog. Hello, moderator, we have a under-aged poster in our midst.

        • Corey

          John anything you say is obviously completely biased; so why would it be considered a logical comment considering Christianity itself is not logical

          • John P Schipsi

            Ok Corey, I concede, I am biased toward God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit ( Trinity), Holy Scripture, and the science that support my beliefs.. That is evident in all of my posts.
            Bias is not a bad thing, Corey, it just means that I come from a certain perspective being a believer.
            Having said that, Corey, wont you admit that you are biased in the negative concerning the Shroud and Christianity in general.? After all, you’ve not personally researched, touched, dated the shroud, correct? You look for evidence to support your BIAS. You rely singularly on those “scientists’ that agree with your BIAS and you dismiss the science and scientists that do not support your bias. SO WHAT??????
            When you say that “Christianity itself is not logical”, what exactly do you mean? To a believer, Christianity is completely logical. To the non-believer, atheists, nothing pertaining to God is logical. To a believer, atheism is illogical. The world goes round and round and round.
            So what???!!!
            You throw out truisms all over the place and then pretend that you’ve made some profound point.
            I agree that there is science that suggests that the Shroud of Turin is a forgery and not authentic.
            Will you agree that there is science and are scientists that present evidence that the Shroud of Turin IS authentic?? You probably will not, but if you’re intellectually honest, you will agree.
            BTW. There are very renowned scientists that were atheists going into the investigation of the Shroud of Turin, who were converted to faith and to belief in the Shroud’s authenticity after investigating. That means that these scientists once agreed with you, but now agree with me. There were/are no believer scientists that were converted to atheism, or came to believe that the Shroud is a fraud, after investigating the Shroud. That FACT carries a lot of evidence to support the authenticity of the Shroud.
            I am aware that you have the right to your atheism. Will you allow for my right to being Christian?

  • CitizenX911

    No one dies an ATHEIST , we all meet the Lord after we die. Good luck to you non believers!

    • John P Schipsi

      Amen!

  • CitizenX911

    Life is creation. Life without spirit is dead inert matter. No spirit = no life.

  • CitizenX911

    When man can create a living cell from inert matter then man can profess to know life. If man cannot understand the spirit component of a living cell, man knows nothing. Spirit is the living engine of life. Scientists cannot even create a living plant cell or understand how it lives.

  • Eagle Eye

    1. Dead men don’t bleed.
    2. They washed the dead before wrapping them up.

  • 79Sista

    To those that don’t believe: Trust in God, not man who has limited knowledge. The Creator has left us with plenty of evidence and revealed truths for our benefit. Why would an all-knowing and omnipotent God demand His creation to be ignorant of the fact of His existence?? He simply allows you the free will and choice to remain ignorant, and believe lies. However unfortunately, when you die you will realize the truth that you rejected all of your life, for the sake of “living your life” (aka the life He gave you) was what you should have embraced, it will be too late.. The truth of the matter is that you DON’T want to believe in the Creator God, because then you will have to admit that you have to answer to Him and that you CAN’T live anyway that you want after all. So instead you exalt yourself as god in your mind and say, “this is what I believe so this is how I will live”.. I know someone who thought like that once, I think his name was lucifer…
    Anyway, think about it, repent and accept Him as Lord.

  • Tom Tella

    I personally have proof that Zeus existed, but I am not willing to expose myself to all this public ridicule so I’m keeping it to myself.

    • Eagle Eye

      Odin rules.

    • John P Schipsi

      @ Tom Tella: Ah, C’mon Tom, show us what you got, please! I promise not to laugh, too loud.

  • Eagle Eye

    If you have true Faith, why do you need a shroud?

    • John P Schipsi

      @ Little Birdie: What you just said, is like saying, if you have the cone and the Ice Cream, why do you need the cherry on top?? We don’t need the Shroud, but it’s real nice to have one more piece of evidence to show you unbelievers that we can back up our faith with science. Sort of like the “Cherry on top” of the resurrection of our Lord and our Savior, Jesus Christ.
      He died for your sins, too, Little Birdie. It’s not too late until you lose consciousness and the flat line.

  • John Thomas

    all evidence shows that the shroud is genuine. Many skeptics will not accept any kind of evidence because they have a vendetta to destroy belief.

  • The Believer

    It’s not controversial. It’s not real. There is no God. We’re here because of the laws of proven physics. People that believe in this don’t have a grip on reality. Yes I know there are many of you. Listen up. Praying on your knees to an invisible man in the sky is not going to send you to paradise for eternity. If you believe this you are either afraid of dying or just stupid. This photo has be proven false many times already. Give up on it. Live for today. That’s all you have.

    • TT

      Wow! You can live your life how you want to, but let others live how they want. You are you, they are who they are. No body is telling you to believe in God. You don’t have to. You have a right to your beliefs and opinions, but don’t preach to others to do what you want them to do. Is that fair?

      • John P Schipsi

        @ “IT”, Yes, it is FAIR! You are telling “CitizenX911″ what to do and what not to do, yet when he tells another that they “”… are free to believe as they will….”‘, you get your panties all in a knot. YOU ARE DOING THE VERY THING THAT YOU ARE TELLING “CITIZENX911″ NOT TO DO. Go back and read CitizenX911’s statement and then read your rebuttal. The arrogance you possess is amazing! CitizenX911 has the right to preach to anyone he chooses. It’s a little thing called the First Amendment to the US Constitution. You have the God given right not to read CitizenX911’s posting if they bother you so much.

    • CitizenX911

      You are free to be wrong, good luck on your path. Because you don’t see does not mean He does not exist, it means you have a harden heart and blind.

    • John P Schipsi

      To: “The believer”, of course, you do hold your position and burden of proof to the same burden and standard that you hold the Christian’s position, correct?? In other words, your statement and beliefs take faith. You have NO proof that what you say is factual, it is merely a belief. Einstein said it best. Einstein said: “”The universe possesses an order, a undeniable
      mathematical order and structure that could only have come by design.
      That designer being a “CREATOR GOD..!!”” . I like to side on the side of proven winners. But, “The Believer”, one day your knee will bend and your head will bow every bit as far as will mine. You have to trip over thousands of crosses on the road to hell. I will be praying for your immortal soul, “The Believer”.

  • CentralBlueArmy

    Those who get it,get it,those who don’t,don’t,you can’t turn wheat into tares or tares into wheat,you either believe in Jesus or you don’t.

  • oldtimerfez

    Why did Jesus bother to visit the Earth with its mortal inhabitants in the first place?

    • CitizenX911

      To lead man to God so they may find pure peace and joy in their hearts. Hopefully to lead men to Holy righteousness and establish the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth.

      • oldtimerfez

        @CitizenX911: Thank you.

    • John P Schipsi

      I think that the bible verse,: John 3:16, sums it up best: “For God so loved the world ( Us ), that He sent His only begotten Son. That whomever would believe in Him, would not perish (eternal death), but would have life everlasting (Eternal life = Salvation plan). We cannot understand the workings of God’s mind and His plan, why it was developed, how it was executed, etc…., but we can understand that He, God, did something most extraordinary in order to save us and to bring us to Himself. Praise the Lord!

  • CitizenX911

    Jesus is pure love and compassion like the Father and the Holy Spirit. Man trying to understand God’s thoughts is like an ant trying to understand a human’s. The only things that a human can understand about God is : Loving, Forgiveness, Compassionate, and the Ten Commandments,

  • Munyoroku Ndumbi

    Sometimes we stop a step short of where imagination begins and so we miss everything: The resurrection of Jesus Christ might have followed a process similar to what we see on TV with medics using an electric charge on a patient whose heart has stopped. Only in Jesus case the energy was not electricity, but dynamite. He had been dead for three days. The electric shock is usually applied from outside, but in Jesus case, the blast appears to have been from within the body towards the outside and carrying the patients negative image with it. It’s fantastic.

  • CitizenX911

    The leaving of a snapshot of Jesus on the Shroud of Turin was an act of genius and a blessing by God for mankind on Earth. The Holy Spirit of God is spiritual radiation that caused the searing or oxidation on the fibers of the cloth. It is a SHAME that naysayers can not be silenced by taking a carbon sampling measurement on the ORIGINAL cloth and not the repair section. This should be done and the controversy must end. It is only a cloth and should be dated to end the atheist’s rant. God would want it this way, it is only a cloth and taking a sample would not destroy the image anyway.