Shroud of Turin: Could It Be Real?

By: Val Powell - February 13, 2014

The Shroud of Turin’s authenticity has been the focus of debates for decades. The piece of cloth that shows the imprint of a man’s face is believed to be the sheet that covered Jesus’ body after he was crucified in 33 A.D. The Catholic Church does not have an official statement regarding the authenticity of the fabric, but thousands of Catholics visit Turin Cathedral in Italy each year just to get a glimpse of the Shroud of Turin. Through the years, the question still remains: Is the Shroud of Turin real, or fake?

In 1988, radiocarbon dating was done by Oxford University. The conclusion was that the shroud was only 728 years old.

A group of research scientists from Italy led by Professor Alberto Carpinteri suggests that a magnitude 8.2 earthquake that happened in Jerusalem in 33 A.D. may have caused the imprint on the cloth. The earthquake may have also affected the radiocarbon dating results released by Oxford University.

According to the research team, the strong earthquake was powerful enough to discharge neutrons. The neutron emissions then formed the image on the shroud upon interacting with the nitrogen atoms on the cloth’s fibers. The theory has been published in the Meccanica journal.

Oxford Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit Director Christopher Ramsey has an issue regarding the new findings. The question he raises is why other geological and archaeological materials were not as intensely affected by the earthquake as the Shroud of Turin.

Mark Antonacci, the President of the Resurrection of the Shroud Foundation, is requesting the Pope to permit molecular analysis of the linen with the use of the latest technology. With this analysis, the radiation theory may be confirmed or ruled out.

This recent finding may have cleared questions about the Shroud of Turin for some people. However, it has also added another possible angle, and may even cause more confusion for others.

Video reveals new evidence validating Shroud of Turin

Image via YouTube

About the Author

Val PowellI'm a content writer, blogger, SEO enthusiast, visual artist, world traveler and lover of spicy foods. I also live and work in Queens, New York. FOLLOW ME on Twitter! @webnewsreporter or LIKE ME on Facebook! webnewsreporter

View all posts by Val Powell
  • Sal DiVincenzo

    It is definitely real…..like it or not. Also google "Sun dances in sky at Fatima"

    • Digital.Gods

      Nonsense. The sun dancing at Fatima is physically impossible. Had that really happened, we all would have flown off the Earth. A visual effect of some sort either cased by the atmosphere or the human eye. (It's not too healthy to stare at the sun…) Use your brain man.

    • hmldjr

      Where did you get your information that it is definitely real? Quote your source.

    • Leon Ward

      There were only about 30,000 witnesses including newspaper reporters who said they saw the same thing, i.e., they said they saw the sun dance in the sky. Explain that all you skeptics.

      • Paranormal Skeptic

        Sundogs.

  • hmldjr

    Yeah its real – a real fake.

    • mc777

      So I take it you have some idea as to HOW it was faked? How blood stains chemically consistent with human trauma & clotting & perfectly consistent with crucifixion were used without dyes or pigment to create a perfect 3 D image with Medieval methods that we are unable to replicate today?

      • hmldjr

        I would get more sense out of the braying of an ass than your post.

        • Leon Ward

          Why don't you open your eyes and do some research? Start with Raymond Rogers, an atheist scientist. He changed his mind after looking deeper into the question as have some Israeli scientists. You'll discover – real blood on the Shroud; the image is laying on top, the threads have not absorbed it (in other words, the blood was not applied by a brush); pollen on the cloth which is from plants only found in Jerusalem; marks on the body perfectly consistent with the stories of the crucifixion; nails in the wrists, not in the palms of the hands (when a person was crucified, the nails were placed into the wrists to better support the body). I mean that sincerely. There's a lot of information on the Internet.

          • hmldjr

            Why don't you get your head out of your ass and start thinking like a person who lives in the 21st century instead of one that lives in the dark ages.

        • Leon Ward
        • mc777

          Well I can certainly understand why you would find in-species communication more discernible.

          • hmldjr

            Right, I think like an educated person free from superstition and you think like someone whose mind is stuck in the dark ages. Ass fits you to the tee. Still believe in witches and warlocks?

          • mc777

            No you think like somebody who doesn't understand that bias & prejudice can be found on any side of an argument. A prejudice against supernatural explanations is still close-minded bias. So far all your "educated" responses have been nothing but ad hominem attacks, which is always the last resort of the clueless, hence your clear understanding of an ass braying.

          • hmldjr

            LOL. Now I've heard it all. I don't believe in your superstition or magical creatures so I'm prejudiced. Go back to the funny farm.

          • mc777

            No, sadly you haven't heard anything. There is no blindness as great as willful ignorance.

          • hmldjr

            Yes someone who propagates superstition is calling people ignorant.

          • mc777

            It must be really frustrating to be caught with your pants down and exposed as not having any evidence to make any kind of convincing argument, This is because you have never taken the time to actually read anything other than a few books (if that) by ignorant fools who have themselves never recognized their own bias and prejudice.

          • hmldjr

            You've convinced me of one thing. You have mental problems and need help.

          • mc777

            You also might want to pick up a dictionary, prejudice does not mean racism per se, it does mean bias, a rush to judgement without a willingness to actually look at the facts.

          • Leon Ward

            Do you think you have more education than I have? BA, MA, MBA. I'm not brainwashed, neither by religious fanaticism nor by blind skepticism. I examine the information and draw my own conclusions. I'm perfectly willing to admit the Shroud is a hoax if the evidence were to point in that direction. The theory that it is a hoax has been debunked by too many credible scientists and scholars, people capable of changing their minds when presented with facts. Did you know there are Jewish scientists who, after studying the Shroud, converted to Christianity? Do you know there are atheist scientists who say they can only conclude the Shroud is authentic? Maybe you;re reading too much into the Shroud. I haven't heard anyone assert that it's proof the Christ rose from the dead. What they are saying is that the evidence points to it being the burial cloth of Christ. That's historic, not miraculous. Yes, Christ is a real, historic figure. He existed and walked the earth just like Julius Caesar, Pontius Pilate and a lot of others who were around back then. What are you afraid of?

          • hmldjr

            You are still a child compared to me. DC, DO, MA, MS, BA, BA, BS. Go brag about your education to someone else that believes you. You religious right wing types are all the same-always bragging about how wealthy you are or how much education you have and in reality you got your education off a match cover and you don't have two nickels to rub together. Now go spread your BS somewhere else.

          • Leon Ward

            Right Wing? Who, me? I’m as politically liberal as they come. I never voted for a Republican my entire life and I’m 70, but I am pro-life. Stop resenting people who use the brain God gave them and go out and educate yourself. Who said I was wealthy? I’m not. I’m retired and get by. I bet you think I come from wealth. Yeah, my father was an Irish coal miner from the hills of Pennsylvania. He fathered 10 kids. The reason I have a good education is because, before Reagan, a college education was affordable. I paid for mine with summer jobs which kids can’t even find now. I didn’t owe a penny after I graduated. Nowadays, kids graduate from college owing anywhere from $20,000 to $50,000 or more. What a way to start out in life.
            Your words indicate you to have a lot of resentments, most likely not very well founded.

          • hmldjr

            And your answers show that you are as simple as they come. I don’t care that you are of Irish descent or that you put yourself through college. This is a conversation about the veracity of a medieval forgery which I think is a fraud; you idiots have made it an argument about the existence of Yahweh. If your whole faith depends on this poorly executed piece of art then your faith isn’t too great

          • Leon Ward

            Please stop using terms like “idiot” when addressing me. I’ll guarantee you’re not man enough to deal with me on any level. When I insult people, it’s face to face. If you want to engage in a conversation, grow up and be a gentleman. Again, have the guts to google Raymond Rogers. He was a scientist who originally called the Shroud a fraud when he was part of the team that did the carbon dating testing in 1988. Then years later, at the request of several people, he did his own exhaustive studies, debunked the results of the carbon dating tests and concluded that the only conclusions he could make is that the Shroud is it is authentic. The same conclusions have been made by Jewish scientists. Without getting emotional and throwing insults how do you answer the following – fact, a Jewish scientist in 1995 determined that there is pollen on the Shroud that is found only in plants which grow around Jerusalem. How would a forger in Europe 700-800 years before have known this? Another fact – look at the original Shroud. Stop looking at the dark detail picture. THe original had little detail. THe detail came to light in the 1890’s when some studying the Shroud took a picture. The negative of the photograph revealed amazing detail which we have today. Photography didn’t exist 700-800 years ago. How would the forger have accomplished all that detail? Again, look at the original and note the lack of detail.

          • hmldjr

            Yes I could and I can deal with you on any level. If you want to believe nonsense go ahead the most rational arguments say it is a fake. It was made in the middle east as part of the Holy Week rituals by Syrian Orthodox Christians and it was stolen by those paragons of christian virtue – the crusaders. It is an icon – man made. And that is all. And its time this conversation came to an end.

        • Brandy Zoeller Ferriell

          Did you read his reply hmldjr? More sense from a braying ass? Do you speak ass? It makes perfect sense to me seeing as I have read about the Shroud of Turin and took the time to watch the video above.

          • hmldjr

            Evidently you can't understand written English and can't understand what I said. Do yourself a favor and and read it out loud and real slow maybe that will help, religious fanatic.

          • Brandy Zoeller Ferriell

            I understand one thing for sure you are a hate filled creep. You know what? You think your education affords you the liberty to attack people and their beliefs. Well it does not! I am an educated person as well. No need to brag or defend myself to you. Your education won’t mean a damn thing when you leave this earth. For your own sake I pray God has mercy on you because I don’t think you are aware of how ignorant you really are. And I am not by any means a religious fanatic. Merely a humble believer in a higher power.

          • hmldjr

            When you read the Tanach in Hebrew as I have and the New Testament in Greek as I have you can talk to me about religion farmer. Your pride in your fin your faith in Yahweh has already condemned you to hell.

          • Brandy Zoeller Ferriell

            Again with your ego. You must be suffering with some insecurities. No worries, I do not wish to communicate with you any further about anything at all. You are not going to change my views anymore than I am going to change yours. Good day.

          • Leon Ward

            This is not about religious fanaticism. It’s about science. Religious fanaticism is believing that the Red Sea parted so Moses and his followers could escape from Egypt. That didn’t happen. Religious fanaticism is believing the universe is 6,000 years old. It’s 13 billion + years old. Religious fanaticism is believing that homosexuality is a choice. It’s not a choice. It’s how certain people are wired. It’s in their DNA.
            The Shroud does not prove or disprove that Christ rose from the dead. It’s not about beliefs. Many scientists who went into an examination of the Shroud with their eyes open and any prejudices or skeptical ideas checked at the door, have concluded it’s the burial cloth of Christ. That has no religious implications whatsoever.

          • hmldjr

            And there are a lot more that say it is a forgery. The only ones that keep this argument going are people that use the shroud to bolster their faith as proof of a God.

        • Guest

          Actually, there is a body of evidence supporting the idea of fakery. Basically, the idea is that the shroud was a work of art, an expression of faith. There was a certain monastic cult in the middle ages who specialized in devising highly obsessive works that took entire lifetimes to finish. There are some who believe that the Shroud of Turin is one such relic.

      • airborne

        You mean you can't understand that I could re-create the image using period cloth and my own blood? Are you really that dense? C'mon, man, it is a forgery, pure and simple, meant to fool people as simple as you.

        • Leon Ward

          From Raymond Rogers, an atheistic scientist. When you open the link and read everything, keep an open mind. And Raymond Rogers was not a simpleton. Throw your prejudices aside and read it more than once. Good luck!

          http://shroudstory.wordpress.com/2012/02/26/introduction-to-ray-rogers-shroud-of-turin-faq/

        • mc777

          THAT IS THE POINT – YOU CAN'T. Did you even even listen to the presented evidence before spouting off & revealing your own ignorance?

        • Brandy Zoeller Ferriell

          Somehow you can create the 3d image as what is on the shroud? No one has been able to duplicate the effect….no one!

          • sk8eycat

            Spread a sheet over a statue (or a corpse), pat it all over with a small bag filled with soome kind of dust, shake out the residue, and repeat on the other side.

            Shrouds are wound around the body, not neatly folded from head to toe.

      • Brad Mays

        Actually, there is a body of evidence supporting the idea of fakery.
        Basically, the idea is that the shroud was a work of art, an expression
        of faith. There was a certain monastic cult in the middle ages who
        specialized in devising highly obsessive works that took entire
        lifetimes to finish. There are some who believe that the Shroud of Turin is one such relic. I wish I could remember specifics, but I can’t.

        • mc777

          I really wish you folks would actually WATCH the video before offering wild theories as to how the Shroud was faked. Christianity does not stand or fall with the authenticity of the Shroud, but so far all the body of evidence by people trying to demonstrate that it’s a fake has done nothing but leave them baffled. If it’s a fake, they haven’t the slightest idea as to the how. If you want to argue with the presented evidence, all well & good, but please at least look at the evidence before refuting it because you just come out looking foolish.

          • Brad Mays

            And you should read and process what responders are actually saying. I’m not refuting ANYTHING. I offered my comment as a response to your question: “So I take it you have some idea as to HOW it was faked?” It’s entirely possible that the shroud is authentically of the period in which Jesus lived. But there is no way to prove that the image on the shroud is actually Jesus himself. Personally, I’d find such proof to be immensely gratifying. But I suspect this issue is always going to be a matter of faith. Unless, of course, you can provide some of Jesus’ DNA for comparative analysis?

          • mc777

            Agreed, Christianity does not stand or fall upon the authenticity of the Shroud. BUT, the main point of the video is that the idea that some medieval artist in a Monastery could have produced the image is pretty much completely busted.

          • Brad Mays

            I don’t disagree. Nor am I trying to be right on this. I just think its an interesting topic, which has generated lots of intriguing cul de sacs, discussion-wise, over the years.

      • Paranormal Skeptic

        How can blood be “chemically consistent with trauma”? Blood is blood is blood.

        • mc777

          Props for at least being stubborn. Blood passing through wounds change chemically to form clots & hopefully stop the bleeding. Where and how the blood flowed & pooled is also very important to forensics. And you might have actually learned that IF you had actually watched the video. I enjoy talking with honest skeptics, I really do. So watch the video and then tell me what you think.

          • Paranormal Skeptic

            Blood postmortem always clots.

    • The Oracle

      The FAKERS are those who suggest that God does not exist.

      • hmldjr

        This article has nothing to do with the existence or non-existence of deities.

        • The Oracle

          I made it so.  You can shrink back (in terror).  Matters not to me.

          Knowledge of God is a 24 hr. a day event.  He's been here a long time.
          He extends to me eternal life.  How does my embracing eternal life

          compare to what you face once you go room temp.  Think!  Think!  Think.

          • hmldjr

            And you're a crazy religious fanatic.

          • The Oracle

            My mental status is not at risk.  I admit to being a believer in the Lord.
            Have been in harm's way.  Have asked for assistance.  It was as if little miracles were falling from the sky.  I asked and I received.

            Not sure where you find refuge when you are in a tight spot.  Not my business.  You continue to do what comforts you the most.

          • hmldjr

            Yes I get my comfort with reason and not in worshiping a medieval icon.

          • The Oracle

            Yes, I see your point.  Tell me though, besides the blessed trinity that you worship; I, my, me, who else, or what else do you pray to during times of stress, when chaos cascades into your life and you seek assistance, pronto.  What were the results. Do share.

          • hmldjr

            I read the meditations of Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus.

          • The Oracle

            When you have the opportunity may I recommend, Proverbs, Psalms, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

            To discover the fate of people such as yourself, read Isaiah, Ezekiel and Lamentations.

          • hmldjr

            I have better things to do than read the rantings of Hebrew shepherds.

          • The Oracle

            Mere distractions bub, when you have an opportunity to acquire wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

            Or rather, is the real issue quite simply, that presiding at the alter of your god, Narcissism much more compelling?

            We are here for a short time bub and then we vanish.  We will be held accountable.  Our Heavenly Father will ask us, ‘-did you live as I wished?’
            At that time bub, your response can only be, ‘-oh, o.’  That day is coming.  Adios.

          • hmldjr

            Yes and you have wisdom and understanding because you picked up a bible one day. Yes tell us about your wisdom and understanding. Adios!

          • sk8eycat

            “Lord” of WHAT? That is such a petty little title.

          • The Oracle

            You do not like the idea of a POWER / AUTHORITY over you.

            Believe that you can give the finger to the Lord / Almighty God

            as you pursue what pleases you / provides pleasure.

            We are all held accountable for our omission.  While alive, when

            a person breaks the law, they are dispatched in front of a magis-

            trate.  If that person is judged GUILTY, then folly they will pay.

            You are in the same boat, living a reckless lifestyle, fooling yourself
            that you will not be held accountable for your words and deeds.

            Nothing can be further from the truth.  The idea will dawn upon you

            as you breathe your last gasps of air, ‘-Boy!  Did I ever screw up!’

          • sk8eycat

            Thank you for your inept analysis. Pardon me while I LMAO.

          • The Oracle

            Allow me to show you your future.  Of course, you get to choose.
            http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+1%3A18-32&version=NIV

          • Leon Ward

            You really have a demented notion of what God is all about. He;s less about punishing and more about forgiving.
            Sad that there are so many people who are good at memorizing Bible passages, but not at understanding God. What in hell else did Christ have to do to teach your kind that God is all merciful and all powerful. He doesn’t get his kicks from stomping all over us. He doesn’t have black bookj in His hands taking note of all the “wrong” things we have done.
            What did Jesus say about forgiving ? – seven times, seven times, seven times and on and on.

          • The Oracle
          • sk8eycat

            “Event” or event horizon?

  • Milus Sage

    see this video…The Shroud of Turin is Missing! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdbfzSYZMSU

  • mc777

    To say everything has to have a "Natural" explanation is not science, it is philosophy, philosophy blind to it's own prejudice.

  • Commonsense58

    It does not matter to me one bit if someone chooses not to believe this. The fact that does matter is that I choose to believe it. I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as my savior. I am a sinner and not the best of man, but I do have my moments and I do acknowledge my failings and I try each day. When it comes time for me to die I will again ask Jesus for forgivness and ask that I be allowed into his Kingdom, even If I have to sweep his streets for eternity as his light will shine on me as I go about his business keeping his Kingdom clean. For those that don't believe and that deny him? you are foolish to not have that glimmer of hope of salvation and eternal life at the time of your earthly death…think about it.

    • LuxbeyTheMechromancer

      I feel so bad for you.

      • The Oracle

        You know when you read a message penned by a Liberal
        since they begin their message expressing their feelings.
        Are unable otherwise to express knowledge, wisdom, understanding.

        • Brad Mays

          One can always identify a Bible thumping conservative's post by its lack of grammatical integrity.

          • The Oracle

            In fact, I read the bible today; Luke.  And I learned.

            When you're about to go, '-room temp,' what will your final thoughts be? Do you have plans to continue the great adventure; the pursuit of eternal life, or have you decided that once you gasp your last gasp, that you'll just be dead?
            I prefer eternal life, compared to how you and yours seek your life once you breathe your last gasp.

        • hmldjr

          Your post has done exactly that – a lack of knowledge, wisdom and understanding.

          • The Oracle

            The response that only a bully in the fifth grade might provide.

        • Leon Ward

          Please, stop the nonsense about a conservative being a believer and a liberal being an atheist. I'm a political liberal. I'll put my belief in Christ against anyone including yours.

          • The Oracle

            I believe ya' Leon, that you are a man of faith.  I have a question for ya',
            how do you express your faith?   I put no restrictions on your response.
            Put a different way Leon, how do you………….. love.

            Faith / Love are actions words; are verbs.  It's written in the bible,
            FAITH WITHOUT ACTION IS DEATH.   ( Google it ).

            Leon, how do you express your faith?    Bill

          • Leon Ward

            In a number of ways: the usual – I go to Mass every Sunday; I meditate and pray every day. The important ways – I donate to certain charities every month, those which help to feed the hungry and clothe the naked, like Jesus admonished me to do; I volunteer at my church to drive seniors and sick people to where they need to go (the doctor, food shopping, etc.). As a member of a twelve step group for 40 years, I continually work on my character defects (impatience, resentments, selfishness, etc. (we all have them).

          • The Oracle

            Leon, you are a liberal and a believer in God.  Appreciating that one of the ten commandments is, '-thou shall not kill,' what are your thoughts concerning abortion?
            Leon, you are a liberal and a believer in God.  Throughout the bible, there are references concerning those who have homosexual tendencies will not enter heaven.
            With that fact in mind ( by all means Leon, Google this biblical reference as well ) what are your thoughts concerning men that lust for other men.  Do share, Leon.

          • Paranormal Skeptic

            Psalm 137:9 – How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock.

            The Bible says killing kids is a-ok according to him.

          • The Oracle

            Nations were destroyed because they did not embrace God.  They worshipped idols created by their own hands.  Also, as is it pertains to you, men and women chose to lie down and have sex with people of their own sex.  God does not condone homo- sexual love.

            Yes, the bible is full of stories of the Israelites and those nations that stood before the Israelites, who ignored their obligations to God, they were both destroyed over thousands of years.

            The USA, the world, is facing the same calamity today.  With each passing event, the advancement of GLAAD, weather patterns get worse.  Past is Prologue.
            It is not global warming that we witness, it is global WARNing that confounds us.

          • Paranormal Skeptic

            I was referring to thoughts on Abortion. God said killing kids is ok.

          • The Oracle

            Google, GOD’S WRATH.

          • Paranormal Skeptic

            So, when I do that, I see god killed people for lots of capricious reasons.

            Your point?

          • Leon Ward

            Abortion – I call myself a pro-Life liberal. Killing life which is growing in the womb is wrong. Why is it wrong? Because it is alive and it is human. As soon as conception begins, it goes from one cell to two cells, to fours cells, etc. as it grows and develops, therefore it is alive, it is life.
            Homosexuality – before I tell you my beliefs, let me say that I was educated in a Jesuit university some 50 years ago. The Jesuits taught us that God gave us a brain for a reason. I don’t believe being a homosexual is a choice. If you do, then I’ll invite you to share with me those conflicting feelings and the mental and emotional torture you had (if you think it’s a choice) when, as a young man you agonized over whether you should date girls or boys. With me, it was girls, girls, girls. Those pretty faces and round heinies are irresistible. How could someone as horney as I have been for girls all my life believe that sexual persuasion is a choice, unless you are hiding something. To me a homosexual is wired that way. It’s in their DNA. A power greater than themselves has decided that.
            As for the Bible, again, God gave me a brain for a reason. There is a lot in the Bible that I understand as made-up stories. The Red Sea did not part. Te universe was not created in 6 days. The entire world was not under water, etc. I am also a Christian meaning it’s about Christ. What did He say and do? I don’t pay a lot of attention to Abraham, Moses and other Old Testament people.
            Do you realize (probably not) that it was very common in that part of the world for heterosexual men to have relations with each other? The Jews did it as well as the Greeks and Babylonians and every one else. And why? Because there were not a lot of women around to share. It was common for these races of people, including te Jews, to kill their unwanted female babies, since girls could not till the fields, fight the wars, etc. And another thing, the rich guys, including the Jews, had harems.
            Sodom was a tent city full of men. It is at the Dead Sea, a barren ungodly place in the desert where men in those days went to hide from conquerors like the Babylonians, Greeks and Romans.
            When you read about men sleeping with men in the Bible, it is likely a reference to straight men having sex with other straight men.

          • The Oracle

            Sodom and Gomorrah were massive cities, not tent cities.  Can be seen.  Google it.

            There are aspects of the bible that I do not accept as well however, when Scripture provides, ‘-God’s expectations of us,’ then I start believing.

            As far as men being, ‘-wired,’ queer, that’s nonsense.  If you believe this, then cases can be made that men are wired to rape, murder, rob.

            You are not a product of a Jesuit education.  If you were you would understand the meaning of the terms, SACRIFICE, PERSEVERENCE, OBEDIENCE, TRUST, FAITH, HOPE, DISCIPLINE.

            You are gay and seek reasons to ignore God’s Commandments.  You are not going to remove yourself from damnation by suggesting to God,’ -But I was wired gay!’  He will laugh at you as he says, ‘-You decided to pursue pleasure.  That was your undoing.’
            What next you’ll hear after that interview with God will be the word, ‘-next.’  At that point, you will be deposited in hell, forever remorseful that you ended up in hell because you could not exercise self-control; would not obey God’s rule.
            You know God’s in charge; his commandment concerning having sex with another male.  You choice is to ignore God’s Will and have sex with another man.  You are damned.  That’s it bub.

          • Leon Ward

            Does that make you feel like a tough guy to call a straight guy gay? You’re nothing but a coward. I don’t insult people hiding behind a computer.
            Have you been to Sodom? I have, on a business trip inspecting the Dead Sea Works, a large Israeli potash processing plant at the south end of the Dead Sea. That’s where Sodom is. It’s 1,600 feet below sea level and the most desolate place on earth.
            Again, keep your insults to yourself unless you’re man enough to do it face-to-face, you right-wing wimp-ass.

          • The Oracle

            This is who God is.  It fits you to the T.   http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+1%3A18-32&version=NIV

      • rac

        Don't feel bad, feel foolish! If you were a bettin' Mechromancer, and had to go "all in" what would you do? a. Put the money on there is nothing after this life, or… There may be some hope and or truth. One is a 50 /50 bet the other 0 / 100.

        • hmldjr

          So you are insulted that this person doesn't have the same beliefs as you.

      • Commonsense58

        you needen't feel bad for me I have a great life and have been blessed in many ways. I have been sober for 18 years and have been the luckiest guy alive. I look back on my life and was almost killed twice in the Army, but was saved in strange ways…I know today it was the hand of god as no other way could be explained.

    • Brad Mays

      I have thought about it, along with everyone else over the age of nine.

      • Commonsense58

        sorry Brad, I'm 55, a US Army combat arms vet, father, grandfather, volunteer, homeowner, taxpayer and hold commonsense. That you would insult someone you do not know speaks volumes to your character and integrity.

        • Brad Mays

          I speak as I find. We’ve all given these matters considerable thought, I’m sure. I started asking questions at an early age. I’m still asking questions. You refer to people who don’t share your views as “foolish,” then suggest we give thought to your commonplace proclamations. Well, I have been giving thought to Christian doctrine, since roughly the age I cited. Your being a – (cue up the pipe organ music) – US-Army combat arms vet, a father, a grandfather, a volunteer, a homeowner, a taxpayer and a self-proclaimed holder of common sense, doesn’t mean that your words are an indication of personal insight, let alone wisdom or, I daresay, a penchant for critical thinking.

          • Commonsense58

            you did not pay attention to the first 15 words that I wrote. I could care less what you believe much less that which you write. go find another forum to heal your broken heart you poor little attention seeker. If you don’t believe why do you comment? if you are not a Christian why post your anti Christian remarks? the reason you do is that you are lonely and confused and looking for someone to persuade you. You are seeking attention by insulting those that believe. It is in fact a foolish thing to do. you seek to hurt those you do not know by insulting their beliefs..think about it young boy.

          • Brad Mays

            Wrong on every count. Seriously. The truth is, I’m very open to the possibility that the shroud is what the faithful claim it to be. But what you do – what you did in the post I responded to – was use your belief in the shroud’s authenticity to belittle those who may have reservations about it. I didn’t insult you in my response, but I do cop to sarcasm. I paid attention to every word in your post. And you are correct in your assertions that you, I and everyone else on this planet are hopelessly imperfect. The main difference between you and I, as I see it, is that as a Christian fundamentalist (correct me if I’m wrong), you embrace without reservation the whole concept of vicarious salvation, which I do not. I believe it is what we do (not what we think or what we say or believe) that defines what course we are on. I disagree with the assertion I hear so often from Christians that without faith, there would be only evil in the world of men. I believe that the universe contains within it a moral structure, perhaps of a divine nature. But I don’t pretend to have a sufficient grasp of the eternal to be able to comprehend its mysteries. I believe in a God, but not necessarily in Jehovah. I respect the divine, but tend to keep the nature of that respect to myself. I pray twice a day, but always in private. I never ask for anything, but offer only gratitude. I was raised a Christian, and at a very young age discovered within myself that my Christian instructions were better used as a foundation than as an end in and of itself. I would estimate that age to be roughly nine or ten. When Einstein set out to prove that God does not, as he put it, “play with dice” and devised the Steady State Theory to prove that the universe was not expanding, he failed. He was a man of God as well as of science, but discovered, in the end, that he could not bend the rules of science to make them fit with his religious beliefs. He ultimately gave up on the Steady State Theory, and accepted the notion that would would never comprehend “the mind of God,” as he put it (at least not as a mortal man). That’s pretty much where I stand on these things. I’m in awe, but I’m not sure exactly what it is I’m in awe of. If the soul is eternal, then I guess I have time to eventually sort this stuff out. We all come to the divine in our own way.

    • Brandy Zoeller Ferriell

      Well put. I thank God there is a life after this one.

    • sk8eycat

      The United States is a Republic; not a "kingdom;" we do not kneel or bow our heads like serfs to royalty, or nobles, and that includes "lords." We have a secular constitution that only mentions religion in an exclusionary manner. YOU may need a "personal savior" to make yourself feel important. I do not. I'm happy as I am,an elderly nobody who has studied the buybull till I was disgusted with it, and loves to discuss and argue with deluded religionists. So…rock on wit' yer bad se'f, and I will do the same. I don't need saving from anything.

      • Commonsense58

        hey guy, you get what you ask for and who said anything about the United States? the US isn’t even mentioned in the article! I was referring to my own failings and said I would be happy sweeping the streets ion “:His Kingdom” for eternity if that is what he wanted me to do. and yeah guy, I do need a personal savior. I am not interested in arguing in my life so as you put it”rock on wit’yer bad se’f” what ever that means. and have fun in hell!

        • sk8eycat

          The idea of a “holey kingdom” is just silly. Do you expect to “sit on the right hand of ghod” when you get there? Be careful she/he/it doesn’t g00se you!

          “Heaven for climate; hell for company.” Mark Twain

      • mc777

        Secular constitution? Interesting since Madison was a Theologian graduating from Seminary. Interesting in that by far and away the most commonly quoted reference source for the Declaration of Ind & the Constitution was the “buy-bull” you love to mock. Interesting that the next most cited sources were Montesquieu, Blackstone, Locke & Weatherspoon. Montesquieu, the Father of Separation of Powers based his theory on the Biblical concept that man was a high but fallen creature & therefore power needed to be divided to provide a system of checks & balances. He also believed a Representative Republic to be the highest form of Govt but sustainable only by a people of high moral virtue. This prompted John Adams to write the Constitution was written for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the governance of any other. The Dec of Ind declares our rights are inalienable entirely because they come from God, (created equal) and therefore only God can take them away. Your “secular” constitution was written by men overwhelmingly influenced by a Christian worldview and that produced the greatest, freest, most prosperous nation the world has ever known. Our nation’s demise is being hastened by idiots who insist on eradicating our judeo/christian heritage and who have nothing better to do than harass school kids because a Christmas Carol or Graduation prayer is more of a threat to their “secular” state than radical terrorist.

  • Always Happy

    Most people of faith are inspired by the shroud. That is if they are living/practicing their faith. And not only practicing it…but sharing it with others.

  • steve

    shroud of bullshit!!!

    • Brandy Zoeller Ferriell

      Please explain… what part is bullshit?

  • matteo

    The shroud IS real…who do you think is responsible for the Earthquake exactly at the time of Christ's death…???????????

    • sk8eycat

      Why did NOBODY notice an earthquake that "opened graves" etc., and so on? As one who has experienced several strong quakes, and no few little ones, plus all their attendant aftershocks, I know that a strong quake can be felt for hundreds of miles in every direction, and the one that is reported in only one of the four ghost-spells would have leveled most of Jerusalem. Nothing of the sort happened. None of the Jewish, Roman, and other literate people living in that tiny backwater reported such an occurrence.

      Nobody knows what Jesus looked like because he never existed…he was a disembodied "spirit" (breath) invented by the damaged brain of Saul of Tarsus.

      This is another example of religionists grasping at straws, trying to prove the unprovable. Give it a rest!

      • mc777

        To say that Jesus never existed historically reveals a complete ignorance of history my friend. The real question is why is it so important to you that you feel the need to deny his existence flying in the face of over-whelming evidence?

        • sk8eycat

          WHAT evidence? There isn't any. The propaganda in the buybull is not eveidence.

          • mc777

            There are hundred's of sources for collaborating evidence in addition to the gospel sources, including Roman & Jewish Historians such as Josephus. I don't have the time to educate you my ignorant friend, but I will take the time, but only if you are actually interested in hearing something beyond the non-existent rantings of blind internet trolls.

          • sk8eycat

            The tiny bit in Josephus' writings is a 4th century interpolation, as are other forgeries by church fathers inserted after Constantine. ie: state propaganda. There are NO eyewitness accounts of the "life" of Jesus, the crucifiction, the "resurrection. I have read the entire buybull…twice. It's preposterous. Period.

          • mc777

            While parts of Josephus's writings may have been corrupted, the reference in it's entirety certainly was not. Several references such as calling Jesus the so-called Christ are not at all sympathetic and when added to the information provided by other Roman Historians they do establish some important facts, 1. Jesus existed. 2. He was convicted & crucified.
            There are passages in the Gospel of John such as some of the recorded details of the crucifixion that are beyond doubt are eyewitness accounts (such as water coming out of a wound to the side, something that could only have occurred after a rupture of the heart sending pericardium fluid out of the chest cavity). To say I don't know who Jesus was because I haven't seen enough evidence to convince me he was anything other than an unlucky Jew demonstrates at least an open mind. To deny his very existence demonstrates a don't bother me with the facts, cause I got an emotional need to deny his existence; which is willful ignorance.

          • sk8eycat

            I spent the first 25 years of my life believing everything I was told in church, then I read the buybull from Genesis thru Revelation…twice because I found it so shocking and ridiculous the first time. I have spent the last 50 years reading cosmology, evolution, history, apologetics, other older religions, and analysis of same, and have come to the conclusion that there is no supernatural realm. It's all fables invented to explain natural phenomena that primitives who had no idea of the scientific method for finding truth among garbage made up to control their tribes. It's ALL about control.

            There are NO eyewitness accounts of the crucifiction, NO eyewitness accounts of a baby in a manger, or of a sermon to 5,000 people on a hill outside of Jerusalem, among other things.

            And the "city of Nazareth" did not exist till 100 years after the death of Herod.

            None of the ghost-spells were written till at least 40+ years after the supposed death of your imaginary friend. they are NOT eyewitness accounts.

          • mc777

            You may have read the Bible, so did Stalin, question is do you even know how to read? Simple fact is the first references to Jesus Christ come from Paul's Epistles with the earliest being written around 40 AD, less than 10 years after the crucifixion in 33. All the Gospel accounts leave out very important historical events for the church, Peter & Paul's Martyrdom, the destruction of Jerusalem including the temple, etc. which Jesus is quoted in the gospels predicting. There is only one valid explanation as to why these events were not included, they hadn't happened yet. This dates Acts to around 60 AD, and Mark as the earliest gospel at around 45 – 50 AD. This means all these documents were being circulated while the people who witnessed the events were all still alive & could verify the accounts. IF it were only about power they sure must have been disappointed because their claims didn't get them power, it got them dead. You didn't answer how John would know about such specific details of the crucifixion, details a person would never just make up. You can use all the sarcasm and spew all the bitterness you like, but the facts are against you, and I can only conclude your unbelief is actually bitterness about the actions of somebody along the way.

          • sk8eycat

            It has been established by buybull scholars who had no axes to grind that “Mark” was written no earlier than 70 CE, and added to much later.

            My disbelief is a result of years of study, plus reason and logic. “Bitterness” or “anger” is the usual excuse the deluded resort to in order to attempt to explain why so many former believers can no longer accept fables and legends as facts.

            Saul/Paul is not a trustworthy witness; he never knew Jesus except as a voice inside his faulty brain several years after the non-crucifixion…which NO Roman official or soldier (and ALL Roman soldiers were required to be literate) thought noteworthy to write home about.. Of all people Pontius Pilate would have written a report to Rome for no other reason than to cover his own a$$.

            Romans did not crucify common criminals and rabble-rousers, nor did they do so to placate local authorities. They didn’t need to. Crucifixion was a punishment reserved for pirates and slaves, a la the rebellious followers of Spartacus.

            Believe what makes you feel special; I don’t need that kind of nonsense.

          • Leon Ward

            Romans did not crucify common criminals and rabble-rousers? Crucifixion was very common especially for some one with a following like Jesus had. The Romans were ever vigilant about the possibility of an uprising. They wasted no time crucifying anyone under suspicion which was a very effective way to scare the daylights out of anyone in attendance. Please don’t give the Romans a pass on cruelty.
            This actually happened – while ruling over Palestine, Pontius Pilate had a visit from his brother-in-law. He threw a party for him outside the city walls in a small valley. When night fell and it got dark, Pilate had about 20 prisoners taken out of the local jail, had their clothes soaked in oil, had them crucified around the location where the party was being held and then had them set on fire so the party could go on.

          • mc777

            And yet you keep spewing garbage as only the emotionally invested can. Yes there are “scholars who late date Mark, they used to date the Gospels in the 2nd century, because it fit your narrative and they needed time for the legends & stories to develop. But even they were not so dense as to deny there was some historical figure that gave rise to the myths, they simply denied he was anything more that a hillbilly rabbi. BUT that was dating based on worldview & philosophy NOT evidence. You can find “scholars” to say just about anything. But the internal evidence from the documents themselves support none of these claims or any of the late dates.
            Saul was the Witness the Jews who held power feared the most, the one they considered MOST credible, that’s why they had him killed. He was one of them. By becoming a Christian Paul sacrificed everything & gained nothing.
            The same with every one of the disciples. All but John died for what they believed, & maybe that’s what you find so hard to understand, any one having beliefs that they’d be willing to die for. IF Jesus were not crucified & raised from the dead then the testimony leaves no other conclusion that they were all con-men, in a conspiracy to defraud. BUT any con man who figures out his con will get him killed will drop it. A man will die for something he believes but is false. He will not die for what he knows to be a lie.

            You pretend to be a rational cynic, and yet spew so much nonsense and false assumption that it is very clear you really haven’t thought any of this through very well, You state my beliefs come from emotional need, and that may be. But I submit to you that so do yours.a need full of pride, I’ve tried to reach into the dark hole you’re so proud of my friend, I won’t again. “Men loved darkness rather than light.” -John

          • Paranormal Skeptic

            The authorship of the Pauline Epistles are also at question, and the earliest copies cannot be found and dated until at least 125 AD.

            Some of them are questionable on if Paul even had any influence on their writings.

            The earliest, actual person, that can be confirmed is Paul himself. Now, I I wonder… Why would a Jewish outcast (Because he was a Roman citizen) want to garner support among his own ethnic group, and rise to a position of religious authority among them?

          • Leon Ward

            You’re correct. I attended a conference in Chicago about 7 or 8 years ago when a nun with a Phd. in Theology (she teaches at Loyola University) talked about what theologians have known since 1821 about many letters ascribed to St. Paul as being written by others.

            She pointed out that Paul’s writing style was simple with short sentences and paragraphs. His message was also simple guiding people to look at Christ as the Savior, as someone always ready to forgive and non-judgmental, some one without a long set of rules. Then the style changed with long run-on sentences and paragraphs. The biggest change, however, was the message. This is where we begin to see nonsense like “women, honor you husbands”, admonitions against certain sex acts, etc. That was not Paul. It is also, unfortunately the beginning of a time when Church leaders began to use fear in order to control believers, and it has been going on for 2,000 years. It was the beginning of a time when the last followers who knew Christ had begun to die off and an “organized” church appearing with a hierarchy full of egos. It was the beginning of a church that relied on made-up rules like no meat on Fridays in order to control the little guy. Hopefully, especially with the new Pope, we’ll get back on the message that Christ had intended and that Paul so effectively preached before his name was used to sell nonsense.

          • mc777

            Hate to disrespect your Nun but that’s pretty much garbage. Paul’s teachings about women & sex etc while very much misunderstood, are completely consistent with a formally trained Theologian of the time period. Paul you have to remember walked around with the equivalent of a couple PhD’s Any difference in style can be attributed to the need at times to dictate to a transcriptionist. Only Hebrews is really in any way questioned as having Paul’s authorship.
            Woman asked to be silent in Church came from the fact men didn’t sit with their wives, so in order to ask her husband a question she had to yell across the room. Honoring & respecting husbands was predicated on husbands loving their wives in the same way Christ loved the Church, (service & sacrifice) Paul’s Epistles all show the formal education that none of disciples would have had, and are perfectly consistent with a Biblical scholar of the time.

          • mc777

            The dates of the earliest copies doesn’t mean a hill of beans is assigning dates or authorship. Because they are copies, not originals. Just like any other ancient book of antiquity internal evidence of the documents provide the best clues for dating. As far as the reliability of the copies the most important thing is the number of copies so that they can be checked against others for accuracy. The entire New Testament in this area is the most authenticated book of ancient antiquity, none other even comes close.
            Yes Paul was a Roman Citizen, so what? He was also a Pharisee and studied under one of the most prominent Rabbi’s and schools of Theology. If he was going to try to garner respect from the Jewish Elite in Jerusalem to increase his prestige joining the Christians would be the absolutely LAST thing he would do. Persecuting the Church on the other hand, now that would be a great way to earn favor with the Roman supported High Priest.
            NONE of your arguments bear up under scrutiny, the skepticism of your New Testament sources are typical of Theologians ignorant of an bias based on philosophy, and not fact. Anybody claiming Jesus didn’t exist is not only blind to his own prejudice he is motivated by some kind of emotional agenda.

          • Paranormal Skeptic

            The internal information is also flawed. Herod is in the wrong time period, no documentation of a great census, no documentation of a person named Jesus being executed for high crimes, et al.

            Even the four gospels all offer contradictory accounts.

          • mc777

            Will you give it up? Which Herod are you talking about when you know nothing about you are talking about?
            Here’s all of 2 seconds of research.

            Dr. John Elder notes that:

            …archeological discoveries prove beyond doubt that regular enrollment of taxpayers was a feature of Ro­man rule and have shown that a census was taken every fourteen years. A large Egyptian papyrus, telling of an enrollment AD 174-175, refers to two previous enroll­ments, one in 160-161 and an­other in 146-147, at intervals of fourteen years. A much earlier papyrus, dated in the reign of Tiber­ius [14-37 AD] reports a man’s wife and dependents for enrollment and apparently has a reference to a tax roll compiled AD 20-21. Another shows an en­rollment under Nero AD 62-63; another lists those exempt from the poll tax in the forty-first year of Augustus, who began his reign in 27 BC. Since Augustus records that he set about early in his reign to organize the empire, the first census may have been either 23-22 BC or in 9-8 BC; the latter would be the census to which the Gospel of Luke refers. (Elder, J. 1960. Prophets, Idols, and Diggers. Indianapolis/New York: Bobbs-Merrill Co., pp. 159-60).

          • Paranormal Skeptic

            May have been… None of those are circa 1BC-1AD, which would have been the period.

            That being said, what “2 seconds of research”? What are your sources? A book, which has no scholarly peer review? looooool

          • mc777

            You are trying awfully hard, but you should learn from Mark Twain, that it’s better to keep silent & be thought a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt. No there wasn’t a Census in 1 BC, could be a problem except Jesus wasn’t born in 1 BC – 1 AD, those were assigned dates based upon much later miscalculations. Jesus’ birth would have came several years earlier.
            Archaeologist knew about the established history of the census for decades, unfortunately your “peers” by which I can only assume you mean the liberal University skeptics whose skepticism is based far more in philosophy than actual evidence; if they reviewed would likely have made objections, BUT not based on evidence but their Naturalistic Philosophy. Their Philosophy informs them that the universe is a closed system, i.e. closed to anything they can’t explain outside of “Natural” laws. Did it ever occur to you that just maybe this world is bigger than your understanding & that just maybe there are Natural laws outside of your very limited experience and understanding? To the materialist the Bible can’t be true, because Naturalism their philosophy says it can’t be true, the evidence be damned. But an anti-supernatural bias is blatant intellectual snobbery and prejudice. It’s a form of blindness. I feel like I’m trying to describe a rainbow to a man completely color blind. Except your blindness is a willful choice. Well you can keep your world-view that tells you the ultimate purpose in life is to be worm-food, and pat yourself on the back, tell yourself how smart you are, & strong, you don’t need a crutch, or fairy tales, or rainbows. I’ll still be smiling, & realize you’re just too blind to see. Let me know if you ever decide to open your mind to other possibilities. It’ll blow your mind what you will suddenly be able to see.

          • Paranormal Skeptic

            Oh, so I misread the years… So, can you point to the census that has Mary and Joseph recorded in it?

            And, pray tell, what year was Jesus born then?

          • mc777

            Lol, yes, yes I can. In fact there exists a a photograph taken by a Roman Official, posing with Baby Jesus. There’s even a little halo visible in the pic so you can know it’s him. Plus, his official birth certificate is attached by a stone paper clip says Yeshua Ben Elohim, Savior & Son of God on it. In the same file you will also find his death certificate. States Yeshua Ben Elohim, crucified for the sins of the world. Cause of Death: Rupture of the heart. Then a very curious entry three days later, the Roman writes “Oh never mind”

          • Paranormal Skeptic

            So, when was this copy of the census rolls discovered?

            You said there was a census record for when Jesus was born. So, where is it? We’ve apparently found a bunch of others, this one should be easy to find.

          • mc777

            lol, you absolutely can’t be serious, um, go find a dictionary, look up sarcasm . .

          • Paranormal Skeptic

            So, again, there’s no evidence of a census being done during the appropriate period of time where Jesus was purported to be born, even while an event of this magnitude would surely have been recorded by the Romans.

          • mc777

            Mary & Joseph were two Jewish peasants, why would two peasants registering for a census be considered an event of such magnitude? I have already provided the archaeological evidence that regular census’ in fact did take place. Astronomers using computer models can factually state some pretty amazing things were happening in the sky at that same time, but the Romans would have had no reason to attach celestial events to a couple Jewish peasants, but you are talking about an Empire out of power for 1500 years, do you seriously believe that ALL of their bureaucratic records survived? Muslims controlled Palestine for most of the last 1500 years, would they feel some compulsion to preserve Roman census data? No no Mohammed, we can’t destroy these records!! Why not Hasime? Because a 1000 years from now Paranormal Skeptic will need to see them to confirm Jesus did in fact exist. You mean the same Paranormal skeptic that will become the world’s truth & existence arbiter? Yes, yes, the very same. OOOOh, well we better preserve these records for him, he might also decide WE don’t exist. Well here let’s put this one up on top the one that specifically mentions Mary & Joseph, giving complete physical descriptions, mention they both had halos, & she was 9 months pregnant. I hope that’s enough for him.

            Me too.

          • Paranormal Skeptic

            The event of magnitude I was referring to is a child visited by two foreign dignitaries, the slaughter of a mass number of infants in a region, the sudden presence of a new star in the heaven, et al.

            A great many incidents in the bible should have made it into several civilization’s records. They didn’t.

          • Paranormal Skeptic

            The Romans, being extremely careful record keepers (Much of which has survived), records no contemporary accounts of any man who fits the description of Jesus.

            But, don’t believe me: Go dig for it yourself. No record of a mass census during the period in question. Herod is in the wrong time period. Among other “issues” with the account.

            If Jesus did in fact exist, his story was much less exciting than what is made out in the Gospel accounts, which were written nearly 70 years after his death, and are (At best) third-hand accounts.

          • Commonsense58

            I have a feeling that the individual you are debating with has suffered rejection in his life and is alone with his corrupt thoughts. He is seeking inclusion by objecting to the happiness of others in a desperate attempt to be forgiven for something that he has done. He need’ent seek it from us, he knows where to turn and I am quite sure when he is on death’s door he will be singing an entirely different tune!

    • Leon Ward

      I believe the image on the Shroud is authentic. I doubt if an earthquake had anything to do with it.

  • Leon Ward

    The radiocarbon testing done in 1988 was later debunked by one of the scientists originally involved. It was done at Oxford and at two other places. The scientist's name is Raymond Rogers (google him). Rogers was asked to look into the situation more deeply which he reluctantly did. He was an atheist (now deceased) and didn't want to get any further involved. What he found was that the radiocarbon dating was done on a sample which was not of the original cloth but of a patch sewn into the original after it was damaged in a fire about 700-800 years ago. So the radiocarbon test was accurate as far as the sample provided was concerned, however, no testing was done on the original cloth. Rogers concluded that the only thing the Shroud can be is the burial cloth of Christ as have other scientists since. Other information – there is pollen on the cloth which comes from plants which are found only in Jerusalem and no other part of the world. This was discovered by an Israeli scientist. Now, how in the world would a Medieval forger in Europe have known that he should sprinkle the cloth with pollen from plants growing in Jerusalem and nowhere else? How would he have even known there was pollen on the cloth back 700-800 years ago? Come on all you atheist scientists! Admit when you don't have the answers of when the answers don't square with your prejudices.

  • Robert Losnes

    there is only one problem with the shroud being blood stain image of christ is christ blead to death and had no blood left to make the image

    • Brandy Zoeller Ferriell

      My understanding is that it is a 3D image not a blood stained image. The blood stains are in certain areas of his body, such as his hands and head.

      • Leon Ward

        Scientific examination has proven the marks to be blood.

    • ProfEm

      No, Robert, crucified people don't bleed to death. They suffocate as they become unable to lift their chests high enough to breathe. I may not be explaining that part exactly right, but that's essentially it. Jesus would still have had most of his blood when he was buried.

      • Paranormal Skeptic

        I thought the bible says all of his blood flowed out upon being punctured by the Spear of Longinus?

  • mick

    Of course it is real, just like my old army blanket. What people believe about it historically is their own business.

  • Leon Ward

    Open the following link http://greatshroudofturinfaq.com/Science/Dating/rogersmindchange.html

    Scientist Raymond Rogers who had been a part of the original carbon dating debunks the results of the carbon dating tests.

  • Leon Ward
  • Leon Ward
  • gene

    The late Dr. Walter McCrone found the "blood" stains were actually mercury oxide. the markings were formed by iron oxide, a common artist's pigment of the 13th century. The other problem-there is no mention of the shroud before 1200 AD-where was it hidden for almost 12 centuries? Three fabric samples were taken, and separate tests (radiocarbon dating) were done in Italy, the UK (Oxford U.), and the USA-all gave the same result.

    • mc777

      The City of Jerusalem was leveled by the Romans in 70 AD. It would be perfectly consistent for Christians to hide away an important artifact to prevent it's destruction by the Romans and later hostile Muslims.
      That the image was painted & mercury oxide used has been thoroughly discredited. The point of much of the above video is that whatever produced the image was 3 dimensional. Couldn't have come from a drawing, painting, or even a photo-graph. The people providing the analysis didn't say it was Jesus, all they could say is that the image isn't like anything else in existence.

      • gene

        Much has been made of the alleged “3 dimensional”nature of the image. this can be easily explained by a rubbing technique upon a statue. The other thing-anatomical analysis shows that the dimensions of the image are wrong-the head is too long relative to the body.There was a book written in England 20 years ago (Lynn Picknett). It makes a good case that the image might be a primitive photographic image, using a pinhole lens.But the real issue is: why is there no hemoglobin in the “blood”stains?

        • mc777

          Simple question Gene, did you watch the video being discussed? The image isn’t the result of a rubbing technique, at least not with any known medium, the objections only keep getting more loony-tunes.

          • gene

            Yes; the fact is, the STURP scientists were very careful to remove samples from the unpatched areas. There is another theory that has merit:the image was (originally) painted/rubbed/transferred as a POSITIVE image. It was then hung up for centuries, exposed to ambient light. The sunlight caused the upper surface of the linen fabric (and the sizing) to darken with time. the shroud was washed several times a century, which caused most of the positive image to fade out-to be replaced by the negative image seen today. The “blood”stains were (most likely) added, centuries after the original production.

          • mc777

            Fascinating. Again I have to ask GENE did you watch the video, because apparently you didn’t, where the fabric samples were taken from did not come from unpatched fabric because the scientist didn’t realize it came from an area that was patched, how thick can some of you folks get? Apparently Gene knows of a “secret” sample, taken from unpatched areas . . And you continue the discredited mantra claiming the image came from artistic rubbing despite the fact there isn’t evidence of artistic medium. Now we are told these Monks were also armature photographers with the foresight to make a positive image, hanging it up for a few centuries of exposure to make a 3-D photographic negative image as the perfect hoax of the millennium. Boy, those medieval monks were sure tricky. BUT Gene has figured out how they did it, so go ahead Gene, how about YOU make a 2nd image on some bed sheets, show us all how it was done & we’ll all come bask in your genius.

          • gene

            Really, these arguments are so banal-learn a bit about imaging. But anything you cannot understand you will reject..it is called “stupidity”. Suppose you explain just why a negative image is on this bit of medieval cloth?

          • mc777

            Your Avatar is very appropriate, I feel I’m trying to teach an old dog how to fetch. Watch the video Gene, (ruff ruff) no Gene, no, watch the video, then maybe you’d learn something about imaging & stop proposing wacky theories . . No, I can’t explain how the image got there, THAT”S the POINT and neither can you. Since everything you have proposed was clearly refuted in the video,and you haven’t yet addressed the content of the video I can only assume you still didn’t watch it, but I suppose it’s also possible you didn’t understand it. The very definition of stupidity is to do the same thing over & over & expect a different result, so Gene, before you respond again, WATCH the video. I will not reply until you can put forth an intelligent argument that actually responds to info posted, or you have replicated the process yourself..

    • mc777

      It is also clear you are refuting a video you didn't bother to watch. The evidence came in that the sample taken for carbon dating came from a corner section that had been patched and was much newer that the original fabric. Hence, all the carbon dating revealed is the age of the patch, NOT the age of the Shroud.

  • Brandy Zoeller Ferriell

    I'm wondering if the naysayers commenting here have watched the video or read about the Shroud of Turin. The image on the shroud has been proven to have no pigments and no dyes on it. It has blood stains consistent with a crucifixion. And it's a 3D image! I don't care if you believe this is Jesus Christ's image or not, how do you explain a 3D image created that long ago?? No one today can duplicate it! The carbon dating was taken from the edges that had been repaired so that theory is thrown out the window. It would be great if the Vatican would allow this to be tested again. I hope the judgmental people here can open their minds and really analyze the facts!

    • Paranormal Skeptic

      What I am wondering… Is how come the figure on the shroud looks nothing like a contemporary semitic individual of the region?

      He strangely looks very caucasoid, and lacks many of the semitic features.

    • Leon Ward

      The proof of the 3D image came for the first time when the Shroud was photographed in the 1890’s. It was in developing the negative that the 3D image appeared which makes it all the more amazing. Photographic negatives (you may be too young to know what a negative is in photography) come out darker than the original and have more detail. If you look at the original Shroud, the image is faint. It wasn’t until they saw the negative of a photograph for the first time that they know what they had.

  • Del

    If someone had shown me the above picture of the shroud of Turin, with me having no idea of what it is supposed to be, I would guess the age of the person depicted to be roughly in his mid 60's.

  • Robert Losnes

    he was severly flogged and paraded thru the streets bleeding
    he was nailed the the cross in the feet
    and he was pierced in the liver with a spear to bleed to death