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Foner Books – Another Victim of the Google Update

Was Site Design A Factor?

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  1. In October 2010 I starting selling my novel online, which is a Regency Romance. As part of my promotional efforts, I have a Google Alert set to “Regency Romance” that comes early each morning as an email digest. This was my way of finding the latest news related to my topic, complementary sites where I could leave relevant comments for backlinks and to otherwise interact with for author interviews and other promotional purposes.

    The Google Alert is set to send me only the best results. Before the Algorithm update, my Google Alert contained at least 20 (more when you total web and blog links) high-quality links a day, 16-18 of which were relevant to my topic. (One or two would usually be for Regency hotels and honeymoon packages etc.) Now the Google Alert contains maybe 6 links a day, 4 of which have any real relevance to my topic.

    I’ve tried fine-tuning my original Google Alert and adding a couple of new ones in different variations, but nothing I’ve tried has been able to bring the results up to their pre-Algorithm update, level of usefulness.

    One thing I have noticed is that it seems to be trying to send links to new sites. In other words, new posts by sites that regularly appeared in the list pre-Algorithm update, no longer appear in each day’s Alert. At this point, the theory of vanishing returns seems to be in place, and the Google Alert is almost useless to me. Any helpful suggestions or insights would be appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Teresa

    • That’s a really interesting angle to all of this, and something I hadn’t really even thought about. I wonder how this is impacting reputation management.

      • Additional insight. Today’s “Regency Romance” Google Alert contains 1 news, 5 Blog, 9 Web links.

        The first link under Blogs is the comment I made here yesterday. The web links are mostly Ebay and other Regency Romance books for sale links. The news is an interview in a California newspaper with a local author who is releasing a new romance series.
        Teresa

  2. Nice looking site,keep up the good work.
    Maybe Google will learn from mistakes?? but they are the GOD of the internet and I doubt if they will hiding in the dark,un-reachable and very confusing indeed!
    Webmaster.

  3. Foner books does have a few issues. It may have once been specifically for Foner’s translated works, but now just looks like an affiliate book store.

    The first links on the home page are to books about “Computer Repair with Diagnostic Flowcharts”, “get you started in the PC business”, plus many other small business related links.

    The level of writing is not high either, which is another possible factor in the Farmer update – downgrading English language sites that have poor grammar and spelling mistakes. Examples on Foner:

    “The printable eBook can downloaded for $9.95 or the book can ordered from Amazon for $14.95, or from Amazon UK for £9.95 or …..”

    Not saying it is a factor, but could be.

    But basically, it does look like an Amazon affiliate site, which we know that Google does not like all that much! It may have had more nobel beginnings and a lot of work may have gone into choosing the best topics to write about, but that is precisely what Google is trying to avoid – made for adsense / made for affiliate sites crowding the web with their information sites, when there is a lot of alternative quality information that is well researched and written available. SEO’s have spent a long time pushing relatively poor content to the top of the search engines. Now we are starting to see some better quality sites coming back.

    Everyone is focusing on what has been lost in the Farmer update, the real questions should be, who has gained? Maybe those sites are simply a good read?

    • Very interesting because the grammatical issues you observed would be the kinds of things a text classifier (logical piece at the heart of “Farmer Update”) would / could be analyzing.

      • I think there are few content sites out there that are completely immune to grammatical errors. I’ve seen them on all kinds of big brand media sites (and certainly been guilty of them myself on occasion). Interesting point to consider though.

    • Jon,

      Yes, as a publisher I’m an Amazon Affiliate. That’s rather the point of giving away all this book content for free. What you seem to have missed is that the book content is there, and it is that content that draws visitor and links, not the front page. The front page is only there because a site needs a front page.

      I suspect that you, like Google, didn’t actually need any information from the site so didn’t read any of the content. If you had, you’d see why it was drawing over 10,000 visitors a day (and is still running around 6,000). It’s not the design, the navigation, or the advertising that draws people, it’s the content. But if you prefer a beauty contest, get your answers from eHow:-)

      Morris

  4. Interesting- Andersen Studio Ceramic Birds came out ahead on this one. Our Ceramic Birds page now #1 on the list of search results for the phrase “ceramic birds” up from position #5.

    The Find used to be ahead of us.They are now #2, which may be a gain for them as well, I am not sure.

  5. Upon reading your article, it made me recall several passages from a book I am currently re-reading … one that I read some 16 yrs ago.

    The author, Tom Peters, is a former McKinsey & Co. consultant and executive and the author of “In Search of Excellence”.

    The book I’m re-reading is “The Tom Peters Seminar: Crazy Times for Crazy Organizations”. The essence of Peters’ writings in “Crazy Times …” (writen in 199)is not just change, but abandonment.

    You write …”When asked what his best guess is as to why Google de-valued his content, Rosenthal said, “My favorite guess is duplicate content, ie, people have stolen so much from me for so long and in so many different ways, that Google can’t tell the difference who is the originator and has declared a pox on all of our houses. But it could also be that they hate my 1995 style HTML, I’ve heard of a lot of other ten year old and fifteen year old sites with valuable content getting hit hard, it could be they are equally old fashioned in their presentation.””

    Rosenthal is just like Union Pacific, IBM, GM, or even Microsoft over the past 10 years … stuck in an “old world” mentality, that being in position #1 for his niche market search phrases was sufficient. He forgot that others were striving to be #1 in that area and have changed, abandoned “old world” ideas, concepts and technologies … and stayed “fresh” with new designs and new technologies.

    Rosenthal, don’t blame Google … blame yourself !!

    Peters writes (again back in 1994) “…Quad/Graphics, the brilliantly innovative printing company, is as clear as Intel on this point. (sic. change/innovation) The theme for a recent set of company strategy sessions )in which all employees participated): “Quad/Graphics must self-Destruct or risk being destroyed”.This is the new watchword of a company that already licenses its most advanced technolgy to arch-competitors for the express purpose of keeping the heat turned up under itself (and making a buck in the process.)…”

    GoTruckStop.com has held the #1 or #2 search position at Google for search phrases such as “trucking accessories”, “big rig gifts”, “big rig accessories” or “trucking gifts” since 1997. (Note: “trucking accessories” brings back over 2.1 million results as of this writing)

    At GoTruckStop.com, we could have sat back, rested on our laurels, slapped ourselves on the back and said “Good Job!” … or … as we did … we scrapped our entire look, utilized new technology, integrated social media and networking and are staying ahead of the pack.

    Mr. Rosenthal, don’t just change … go for abandonment … and you will be right back where you were … or stay where you are and look back on the “good old days” of 1995.

    • TJ,

      I’m not an entertainer, I’m a nonfiction author. I want people coming for the information, I don’t want them for any other reason. If you want to be in the entertainment business, go for it.

      Morris

      • Matt

        And here we see the problem. It could be that Google is staffed by clueless idiots who mistake smell for taste.

        “Gee, this coffee has to be better than all the other coffees, because it looks and smells so GOOD! So we are listing it as the Number 1 coffeee in the world!”

        “And how does it taste?”

        “Oh, even though it looks and smells good, it tastes really bad! Still, we have to list it as the Number 1 coffee in the world, as we base results not on the contents but on the appearance!”

        And that, folks, is how Google’s algo “works” although perhaps the word “works” in this context is somewhat overstated.

  6. I have two websites, the first one, Coffee Lovers USA (4 years old) and the second Stoneware Lovers USA (Just a year old). I have noticed a significant drop in traffic as well. I use Google Analytics and try to maintain a professional website, that first honors my customers, by delivering good information and than selling quality products. We have gone through a great deal of effort into constructing our site to make it easy to navigate, customer friendly.

    Google back links, according to Google Analytics remain zero. I know we have much to learn but to see our traffic drop after working so hard is very discouraging. I hope our future efforts will show the proper rewards and make it just a little easier to get ranked higher in Google. Joe P. C.L.USA/S.L.USA

    • now google has change PANDA to PENGUIN

  7. I think Google is becoming just like the government or anyone else with power. They have good intentions and they are trying to fight the problem. However, they don’t fully do their homework and they don’t think like the honest people. They put a solution in place that is 100% focused on targeting the dishonest but they forgot to make sure not to hurt the honest. They put in a 1 size fits all solution and it cripples the good sites out there. I don’t think they are evil, they just forget about the good guys while they are fighting the bad guys.

    Maybe their algorithm should just flag the suspected bad sites and have them reviewed by a human that is not part of the “catch all the bad guys” development team. A gut check so they don’t harm innocent sites. I have been writing code since the early 80s and one thing holds true…100% automation will be 50% flawed and 50% is a failing grade. Always have a human verify the results before you put your work out there…Google!
    I know that I have repeated myself in this rant, but I believe it is important for Google, and all the other companies out there, to get the message. No company is invincible and if you provide a bad product long enough; you will be replaced.

    Thanks,
    Michael

  8. Until Feb 24, 2011, Google had loved our Internet security hub website (firewallguide.com) and many pages therein for many years (since 2003?). Our Feb 23 drop in visitors was 28%.

    The drop reflects changes in organic search results. For example, search for “firewall” results ranked our home page on Google page one, line #2 in January 2011. Our router page was Google page 1 line #2 for “wireless router”. For firewall we are now page 2, line #1; for wireless router we are now page 2 line #1 as well.

    For “wireless router” it is interesting what is ahead of us now — 5 shopping sites (not including ads), 2 vendor sites, 4 information sites, and 2 Google more option links. To improve search quality, Google should offer a way to remove the shopping sites from the organic search results.

    In our case it’s not link farms but too many shopping sites. It is not clear what connection these two issues may have if any. But they both happened at the same time.

    • But, aren’t some people more interested in buying wireless routers than learning about them? Or, do you mean a physical button – find products or find information, where people can clearly show their intent before the search is carried out?

  9. Robert

    It sounds as if Google didn’t read the sign that said, ” If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
    Fixing something just to fix it is no reason; but unless you have several initials after your name, ‘Who are you?’ You know the initials
    BS for your first degree MS – more of the same and PHD p Piled Higher and Deeper
    Amazon is famous for the above mentality

  10. Chrissie

    Hi, I have noticed google are listing sites that have nothing to do with the search string I have entered, although the generic web-site makes a match on the string, it has nothing to do with the topic of my search string. When this happens I use another search engine but it might be easier to just start using another search engine by default.

  11. Beamer

    Google’s constant algorithm changes WREAKS of manipulating the search results. This evil empire is nothing more than an arrogant dictatorship ruling the internet, like the devil walking up and down in the earth seeking whom it may devour.

    Why people put up with their BS is beyond me. Webmasters biting their fingernails and pulling out their hair in anticipation of G’s next algorithm change is absolutely preposterous.

    You work your rear end off providing a valuable service to clients who desire first page placement for their keywords, only to have your hard work literally destroyed by the search result manipulation game that Google plays. According to them your site is not worthy, so they just knock you down. This, my friends, is a dictator that needs to be overthrown and done away with.

    When searching for a plumber in Roseville CA, I DO NOT expect to see results for a restaurant serving Indian cuisine! Where’s the freaking relevancy? In addition, when searching for English as a Second Language (ESL) course, I DO NOT want to see results for English Riding Lessons when “horse” was NOT anywhere in my search query.

    When I want relevant search results, I know I will get them at Bing and that’s what my default search is now. There’s also Yahoo!, Blekko and hoards of others. Google can suck my cervix as far as I’m concerned.

    Google is pure junk and the sooner people realize this, the sooner the evil dictator monster’s power is decimated and put to rest.

  12. My website finally went to a PR3 from a PR2. It took over 8 months.
    Web traffic increased +30% and has remained at this level.

  13. david

    I took a look at his source code for the main page. It is easy to see a little of the problem. The page is about computers mostly, yet the meta title is only about publishing. There is not enough correlation to meta title. This is just one little observation. david

  14. For our company it was a blessing. Too many bad sites keeping good sites from being found for what people are looking for and the’re all the same company with the same products in a different package. Good ticket brokers are hard to find and now it’s easier to find us!

  15. Well I am just Sick of google acting GOD! The last 6 months have really seen my software sales going up. Now nothing thank you GOD GOOGLE.

  16. I started my first website in 1998 and was averaging over 1,700 Google visits daily until March of 2010. Then Google’s progressive algorythm change took me down to 1,200 within 2 months. Then the hammer fell a few days back when they took that 1,200 down to around 400. My Bing and Yahoo traffic has remained constant during the same time frame.

    By contrast, I track my competition as well and the ones that have Google ads increased their rankings and those that don’t (me included) lost big time.

    I’ve also noticed the same results with a few other niche websites I own. When adword campaigns are running (I run them seasonally), my rankings gradually increase. When I drop them in the off season, they gradually decrease.

    So, looks like the day’s of independent organic search by Google are gone. You don’t pay, you don’t rank in CPC or organic. I should have expected it anyway after Google went public in 2005 and they became shareholder accountable.

  17. very interesting case Foner Books it was powerfull but the editor maybe made some mistakes that turned google against Foner.

  18. I personally think just because someone was in the Top 10 or #1 for 10 years that they are always welcome to that position. SEO is an on-going effort and the internet changes by the day. Google will continue to update their algorithms and businesses will need to be agile enough to be prepared for that. I have heard quite a few horror stories as of lately, but frankly, if you have all your eggs in one basket then you are doing something wrong.

    • David,

      I don’t do SEO. If Google requires SEO to find good content they aren’t doing their job and Matt Cutts has said as much on multiple occasions. For example, my business partner posted over a decade ago a ship’s history of WWII. He was on the ship, he is an excellent historian, that history as written by him is not going to change. Should he have to go back every year and tweak the presentation, learn CSS and javascript, in hopes of mantaining search engine visibility? Hell no, the growing links to his resource from relevant places should be enough to tell search engines that this is the real thing.

      Constantly updating websites and having social interaction features my be fun for kids, but it doesn’t add to quality, it generally detracts. The amount of time he put into writing and research a book that may be spread over two dozen web pages was years. He’s now beaten by spam sites scraping tiny parts of his content and creating thousands and thousands of pages.

      Morris

  19. Boycott Google

    Here is a quote from this article-
    “That part hasn’t changed, Google just decided they hate the whole site.”
    GOOGLE DECIDES WHO-WHAT TO HATE? BOYCOTT GOOGLES EVIL PRODUCTS.

  20. thanx for info

  21. I should start checking if my site is also a victim of these changes.

    Thanks for the info.

    wey

  22. Paddy Devine

    I’m not giving my website as I don’t need the hit from anyone. I get great traffic for its size. I outrank some of the big guys on a single tag. I do see links to sites that have no knowledge of my area except for material stolen from my site over the years. I had my site long before this area became popular.
    All in all, I get better results from google than with bling, which I personally find to be a joke.

  23. Andrew

    The simple reason why Google pushes other websites in front is: adsense. Adsense makes money for Google. If you use Adsense you get ahead. If you don’t (or only use it on a small number of pages), expect to get shoved down the SERPS.

  24. Hi Rosenthal,

    Have read your article with a lot of interest as to the impact of the latest Google Farmer update.

    However, on doing a Google search for the key words “book contract” and “book contracts”, I still note you Fonerbooks.com is still the top dog! Am I missing something here?

    Tom
    Mombasa Kenya
    hotelsmombasa.com

    • Tom,

      You must be overseas. In the UK, I’m still #1, but in the US, it’s #4 or #5. But that’s just a symptom of being penalized. Over 50% of my US Google visitors are gone with the update, it’s even a little worse than I initially suspected. I’ve had to go with Analytics for my stats, since my server stats have been stuck mid-upgrade for a month:-)

      Morris

  25. Nobody wants to look at your ill-formatted content. Figure out a way to make it nicer and you will be fine. Yeah it’s a lot of work, but this creates opportunity for new companies to come into market.

    • Exactly !! Mr. (whiney-crying) Rosenthal blames his drop in rankings to Google. Yet he fails to address his lack of current design and format that his competitors are utilizing.

      Gee, I remember back when … when a pre-paid phone card was the easiest and most cost efficient way to make a long distance call while you were away from the home or office.

      Does that mean we should ALL go back to pre-paid phone cards?? Of course not … new technology, innovation, design and concepts come about (cell phones, VOIP, 3G, 4G, Skype etc) … and those that simply whine and cry, as Mr. Rosenthal has and is currently doing will be lost in the dust of time … and never realize why.

      I truly believe this issue with Mr. Morris Rosenthal is closed.

  26. I haven’t seen too many changes, but have noticed sites with the “same” modified content in multiple pages took a hit. But, that’s what you get for not writting unique content. We all knew it’d happen sooner or later

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