WebProNews » frames

WebProNews » frames http://www.webpronews.com Breaking News in Tech, Search, Social, & Business Sun, 12 Feb 2012 19:48:32 +0000 en hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 Digital Photo Frames Pique Searcher Interest http://www.webpronews.com/digital-photo-frames-pique-searcher-interest-2007-11 http://www.webpronews.com/digital-photo-frames-pique-searcher-interest-2007-11#comments Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:32:29 +0000 WebProNews Staff http://www.webpronews.com/?p=42289 This holiday season, an unexpected gadget is high on the wish list, if a spate of searches in the United Kingdom is any indication. Searches for digital photo frames outpaced searches for digital cameras there last week.
]]> This holiday season, an unexpected gadget is high on the wish list, if a spate of searches in the United Kingdom is any indication. Searches for digital photo frames outpaced searches for digital cameras there last week.

If you didn’t see some of the doorbuster specials on these, allow me to explain. A digital photo frame works via USB connection or memory card and displays digital photos on an LCD screen.

Robin Goad, research director for Hitwise UK, writes about its impact on SEO:

"This sudden popularity has led to flurry of bidding and optimization on digital photo frame related terms – primarily from gadget shops and sites set up specifically to cash in on the trend, but also from more mainstream retailers such as Amazon UK (‘digital photo frames’ was the 28th most popular search term sending traffic there over the last 4 weeks)."

Specifically, searchers across the pond are looking for Imagin, Phillips and Kodak in the 6.5-7 inch sizes.

Though Hitwise most definitely uses sophisticated technology to measure these trends, a quick double-checking at Google Trends paints a different picture. According to that source, though there’s been a slight bump in searches for digital photo frames in the past month, digital cameras are still higher on the list.

Slightly higher still is the Nintendo Wii, and far above all of them is the iPhone. But Google Trends also shows that interest in digital photo frames is significantly higher in the UK than in the US, perhaps because we’re just now hearing about them.

]]> http://www.webpronews.com/digital-photo-frames-pique-searcher-interest-2007-11/feed 0 Windows CE 6.0 R2 Rolling Out http://www.webpronews.com/windows-ce-6-0-r2-rolling-out-2007-11 http://www.webpronews.com/windows-ce-6-0-r2-rolling-out-2007-11#comments Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:27:35 +0000 Nathan Weinberg http://www.webpronews.com/?p=41954 The R2 release of Windows CE 6.0, the next version of Microsoft’s operating system for mobile devices, is being released today, with a virtual launch event at noon Eastern / 9 am Pacific.
]]> The R2 release of Windows CE 6.0, the next version of Microsoft’s operating system for mobile devices, is being released today, with a virtual launch event at noon Eastern / 9 am Pacific.

You can register for the free event here (and get a chance to win one of ten iMate Momento Digital Picture Frames).

Here’s what’s changed in CE 6.0:

Connectivity Capabilities

Quickly develop small footprint device scenarios and connect to Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008

Build richer end user experiences and develop new capabilities into your product with WSD technologies

Create exciting device scenarios such as VOIP video and 3-way audio with new VOIP technologies

And more…

Confidence

CE 6.0 R2 components can easily be added to existing CE 6.0 projects to quickly create new connected experiences

Current CE 6.0 users can download the R2 components directly onto their workstations

Download an evaluation version and give it a try

Get support on CE 6.0 R2 from a worldwide community of Windows Embedded CE experts inside and outside of Microsoft

Community

Connect with a worldwide community of industry-leading partners who can provide expert support on R2

Take advantage of a large community of developers with Visual Studio 2005 experience

Don’t confuse CE with Windows Mobile. In essence, CE is the real mobile operating system, and Mobile runs off of the various versions of CE. Windows Mobile 6 runs on CE 5.2 because CE 6 wasn’t ready then, and hopefully Windows Mobile 7 will run off CE 6.0. CE 6.0 devices are expected in 2008/9.

(via MSMobiles)

]]> http://www.webpronews.com/windows-ce-6-0-r2-rolling-out-2007-11/feed 0 Q&A – Google Sitemaps and Frames http://www.webpronews.com/q-a-google-sitemaps-and-frames-2007-03 http://www.webpronews.com/q-a-google-sitemaps-and-frames-2007-03#comments Tue, 27 Mar 2007 23:38:30 +0000 Kalena Jordan http://www.webpronews.com/?p=36519 Dear Kalena...

I have two sites; One www.alpine-property.com is top of Google rankings for all my chosen keywords, it has no frames, daily updated content and lots of inbound links, so not surprising.
]]> Dear Kalena…

I have two sites; One www.alpine-property.com is top of Google rankings for all my chosen keywords, it has no frames, daily updated content and lots of inbound links, so not surprising.

My other site www.alptitude.com is the dunce. Frames, static content and just a few inbound links. I have keyword friendly text in the no frames tag and a simple site map. I also have a few pages of no frames content, these are the pages indexed by Google. I obviously know how to fix this, but the time required to rewrite the site in a no frames way is very large, it has a lot of transactional code on a linked secure server which I use to run the business.

In the meantime I am interested in the effect of using the Google Sitemap tool. Will this eliminate the frames problem? The Google FAQs about this ask me to submit both the frameset url and the url of each target page. This sort of suggests that they will be able to index all the content.

Steve

Kalena’s Answer:

Dear Steve

Thanks for the caffeine. The answer to your question is yes and no. Sure, Google might be able to index your frames pages outside of the frames-context and eventually match up your content and work out what your site’s about. But why make it so difficult? And why take the risk when you can spend a little time bringing your site into the 21st century and ditching the frames?

It’s not only search engines that the frames might offend. Searchers tend not to like frames-based sites either and unless you start taking your site seriously, you can’t expect visitors to. It’s not that difficult to replace your frames pages with more modern code.

If you want to continue pretending it’s 1997, at least check Danny Sullivan’s Search Engines and Frames Tutorial to make sure your frames pages are optimized as much as possible. Follow the instructions on Google’s Webmaster Tools for frames-based sites, create an XML sitemap and track the indexing of all your pages to see if the framed ones get indexed. My bet is they don’t.

Comments

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]]> http://www.webpronews.com/q-a-google-sitemaps-and-frames-2007-03/feed 0 Frames and Model-Glue http://www.webpronews.com/frames-and-modelglue-2007-01 http://www.webpronews.com/frames-and-modelglue-2007-01#comments Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:30:41 +0000 Raymond Camden http://www.webpronews.com/?p=34530 Dan asked the following question about frames and Model-Glue:

Basically, my question is about using frames within my application. I basically want to use a frame for my avigation that never gets reloaded and another frame below it for the page displays. The reason I am using a frame for the navigation is that I am also trying to implement chat functionality within my ColdFusion app. The chat core needs to sit in a page that doesn’t get refreshed, thus my need for a frame within my application. How would I go about in setting up this layout with my application using the Model-Glue framework?

The short answer to this is that you don’t do anything special for frames when it comes to Model-Glue. What is interesting is that a very similar issue came up last week. I was doing training for a group of developers using Model-Glue and Spry. When it came time to talk about the URL to use for Spry’s AJAX requests, I made the point that requesting XML (or loading a frame) is no different than any other Model-Glue request.

So to take your frames request and show a practical example, let’s first look at a simple example of framed code:

<frameset cols="200,*" bordercolor="#333333" framespacing="2" border="5"> <frame src="navserver.cfm" name="frame_nav" resize="yes" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" framespacing="0" title="Navigation"> <frame src="right.cfm?target=" name="frame_detail" id="frame_detail" resize="yes" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" framespacing="0" title="Main window"> </frameset>

In case folks are curious – these frames come from the ColdFusion administrator (the only site I know that actually uses frames). The code we want to focus on is the two frame tags. Note they both use a SRC attribute which points to a URL. So in a Model-Glue site, the frames could look like so:

<frameset> <frame src="index.cfm?event=page.leftframe"> <frame src="index.cfm?event=page.rightframe"> </frameset>

So to make this absolutely crystal clear – there is nothing special about using frames or AJAX requests in Model-Glue. Just remember your URL format (index.cfm?event=X) and use it for your links.

p.s. Don’t forget Model-Glue has a set of predefined variables in the viewState, including one for index.cfm?event=. So technically, to make a link to event X, you would normally use this:

<cfoutput> <a href="#viewState.getValue("myself")#X">X</a> </cfoutput>

As a hint – I recommend copying out that myself value to a variable if you will have a lot of links on a page (like your display template).

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Raymond Camden, ray@camdenfamily.com
http://ray.camdenfamily.com

Raymond Camden is Vice President of Technology for roundpeg, Inc. A long
time ColdFusion user, Raymond has worked on numerous ColdFusion books
and is the creator of many of the most popular ColdFusion community web
sites. He is an Adobe Community Expert, user group manager, and the
proud father of three little bundles of joy.
]]> http://www.webpronews.com/frames-and-modelglue-2007-01/feed 0 Can I Optimize A Site Designed With Frames? http://www.webpronews.com/can-i-optimize-a-site-designed-with-frames-2005-07 http://www.webpronews.com/can-i-optimize-a-site-designed-with-frames-2005-07#comments Wed, 13 Jul 2005 16:49:19 +0000 Joe Balestrino http://www.webpronews.com/?p=20850 Can you optimize a site designed in frames? Of course you can! The question should be, “how effectively can I optimize a web sire designed in frames?”

Framed sites – in my opinion – have little use in today’s web design. There are so many better ways to design a site. For example, you have HTML, DHTML, Flash, and other design formats.

Besides being hard to optimize, framed sites also:

* Makes it harder for a visitor to bookmark your pages, or add them to their favorites. The bookmark will always point to your home page, which might not be the page they want to bookmark.

* Limit the viewing space your visitor has on the page.

* Often when a search engine lists your framed page, it will display without the frame on the left. This means that your visitor will not be able to see the navigation menu.

Of course, you can go the route of the “noframe” tag, created to help visitors whose browsers can not read frames. Nowadays most browsers can, and so this tag is used more for SEO optimization and search engines. A few keyword-enriched sentences, and – BAM!: Content spiders can read. This may not be the best method, however it does work. Plus, it is “good SEO.”

There is also another method, requiring a dynamic frameset page:

<html><br />
&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp <head><br /> &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp <title>Dynamic Frameset</title><br /> &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp <script LANGUAGE="JavaScript"><br /> &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp <br /> &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp </script><br /> &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp </head><br /> &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp <script LANGUAGE="JavaScript"><br /> &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp <br /> &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp </script><br /> &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp <noscript><br /> &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp <frameset cols="134, *" border="0" &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp frameborder="0" framespacing="0"><br> &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp <frame name="menu " src="menu.html" &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp scrolling="auto" marginheight="10" marginwidth="5" &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp frameborder="0"><br> &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp <frame name="main" src="main.html" &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp scrolling="auto" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp frameborder="0"><br> &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp </frameset><noframes></noframes><br> &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp </noscript><br>
&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp </html>

Using this method above does not include the “noframes” tag. There is no need for it. There is also some javascript the needs to be imported. To learn more about how to use this method, visit: http://www.webmarketingplus.co.uk/seo_positioning/problem_sites/frames_sites.html. This article by Ammon Johns will give you a step-by-step break down on how to use this method.

Now, I have been around a while. In the web design field, as well as SEO, there are many that suggest that framed sites have trouble ranking high on search engines. So the decision is yours to make: if your site is in frames, you may want to consider one of the aforementioned options, or redesigning your site in HTML. Also, try optimizing your site with keywords, before the other methods. Changes made to your site will reflect in your search engine results. See what works best!

To learn more about web design and SEO visit http://www.mr-seo.com. There you can request a free web design quote. Also visit Joe’s blogs at http://mrseonewz.blogspot.com/ and http://mr-seo.blogspot.com
]]> http://www.webpronews.com/can-i-optimize-a-site-designed-with-frames-2005-07/feed 3 What You Should Know About Site Layout, Frames and Tables http://www.webpronews.com/what-you-should-know-about-site-layout-frames-and-tables-2003-12 http://www.webpronews.com/what-you-should-know-about-site-layout-frames-and-tables-2003-12#comments Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:11:53 +0000 Azam Corry http://www.webpronews.com/?p=8189 Frames Vs Tables

Some people like to use frames on their sites. I would recommend you avoid them if you can … and you probably can.

Frames can be useful on occasion but “the pain is greater than the gain”. Too many people complain of problems with frames than you can afford to ignore. So if you insist on using them, you’ll need to create an alternative no-frames set of pages for these users. Honestly …

… it’s just not worth the trouble!

As If that wasn’t enough reason, many search engine spiders also encounter difficulties with frames.

This means you’ll either have to spend additional time learning how to overcome these shortcomings or be doomed to low search rankings. Convinced?

I hope so – for your sake!

In most of the situations in which you might feel you need to use frames you can usually use tables equally effectively. If not on their own, then in conjunction with SSI – Server Side Includes – which also allow you to write separate pages for inclusion in another ‘main’ page.

The left column navigation bar, for example, is one area that it may seem appealing to place in it’s own frame. The content remains the same on every page and should you need to change it, you can effect a global change just by altering a single file.

What many people don’t realize that you can achieve almost the same result by using an SSI callout in a table cell within the page. This will reference another file on the server which will be written into this location when called. To browsers and search engine spiders alike the page appears as a normal web page and doesn’t give rise to any of the problems associated with the use of frames.

For tutorials and a look at other uses for SSI on your site, visit these free resources:

http://hoohoo.ncsa.uiuc.edu/docs/tutorials/includes.html

http://www.ora.com/www/info/cgi/ch05.html

The Long Wait!

Whilst we’re on the subject of tables…

… don’t make the same mistake I did when first using them!

Tables are great for page layout – you can put things just where you want them to appear on the page. So I made one big table for the whole page, split it up into various rows and columns, then put (nested) other tables inside these and in some places yet smaller ones inside them …

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

Those of you that are quietly chuckling can stop now, thank you! Don’t pretend you’ve never made the same mistake!

Where was I …?

Oh yes … tables. Now the thing with tables is that the browser downloads all the contents of the table BEFORE it actually draws anything on the screen. This includes the contents of any nested tables. So what did that mean for my beautiful page?

It took DAYS to download!

Actually, it didn’t really take that much longer, but it *seemed* like it did. The page remained completely blank until the browser had downloaded every single component and then suddenly flung them all onto the page at once! Leaving your visitors staring at a blank page for ages like this is not a good way to keep them on your site!

As ever, learn from your mistakes – or my mistakes! – and split your page up into several separate tables. Keep the whole lot as simple as possible and try to avoid nesting more than one layer of tables inside another. Browsers also take longer to draw tables if you don’t specify the sizes. This is because the browser has to calculate how big the table needs to be to fit in all the contents.

You can also employ tables to add color to a page in preference to slow loading graphics. Or to effectively draw attention to text placed in a colored box on the page.

Tidy and Businesslike

Forget about loud colors, blinking or scrolling text, fancy animated graphics …

… anything that distracts the eye.

Your visitor needs to concentrate on your text if you want to get them to ‘bite’. Compare your site to it’s offline ‘brick and mortar’ equivalent.

Would you paint that bright yellow and deck it out with flashing lights?

… ‘Nuff said!

Keep your pages clean and well organized. People must be able to find things easily.

Imagine calling into a supermarket in a strange town to buy a box of tissues. You’re in a hurry. To your dismay you find that none of the isles are labelled and you are forced to walk all over the store to find what you want.

How annoyed and fed up would you feel?

Sure, you’d still buy … but only because of the hassle involved in leaving the store and going to another. Online this is as easy as …

… click … “I’m outta here!”

Actually, when you go to a supermarket you’ll normally find that everything’s neatly labelled and tidily displayed in rows with signs above them… build your online store along the same lines.

Apply what I call ‘the three clicks rule’… make sure your visitor can find whatever they’re looking for within three clicks. If not you run the risk of them becoming frustrated and leaving.

1999-2000 Azam Corry “Do it Better. Do it Faster. Do it Right!”

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]]> http://www.webpronews.com/what-you-should-know-about-site-layout-frames-and-tables-2003-12/feed 0 Frames and Search Engines http://www.webpronews.com/frames-and-search-engines-2003-07 http://www.webpronews.com/frames-and-search-engines-2003-07#comments Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:26:34 +0000 Sumantra Roy http://www.webpronews.com/?p=6642 When it comes to framed sites and the effect that the use of frames by a site has on its search engine ranking, there are two schools of thought. Some people say that framed sites, if done properly, have no problems in getting good rankings in the search engines. Others claim that if search engine optimization is important to you, never use frames.

In my opinion, the truth lies somewhere in between. Yes, the use of frames does throw up a few issues when it comes to getting good rankings in the search engines which don’t understand frames. Hence, when you are designing a new site, I would recommend that you avoid using frames, unless you have a specific reason for doing so. However, if you already have a site which uses frames, all is not lost. You can still get good rankings in the search engines even though you have used frames. Furthermore, using frames also has its own advantages when it comes to search engine placement, as we shall later on. This article assumes that you have a working knowledge of frames. For more information on frames, click here.

In case your site uses frames, the key to getting good rankings lies in using the NOFRAMES tag. The NOFRAMES tag is intended to help framed web sites display some content for those people who are using non frames enabled browsers. The search engines which don’t understand frames also look at the NOFRAMES tag. Hence, if you are using frames, you need to add content to the NOFRAMES tag.

What you should do is to add a complete web page within the NOFRAMES tag. Ensure that this page repeats the important keywords for your site a number of times. Also, in order to ensure that the content within the NOFRAMES tag is as prominent as possible to the search engines, you should put the NOFRAMES tag right after the FRAMESET tag. However, don’t put the NOFRAMES before the FRAMESET tag. If you do that, Internet Explorer will display your site correctly but Netscape will display the content present in the NOFRAMES tag, rather than the content present within the frames. Furthermore, you should also place a link to the page containing your navigation links in the NOFRAMES tag. This ensures that the search engines are able to spider the internal pages in your site.

Here’s what the source code of your page might look like:

-==-

One problem that occurs when you use frames is that the search engines may often display one of the internal pages in your site in response to a query. If this internal page does not contain a link to the home page of your site, the user will be unable to navigate through your entire site. The solution, of course, is to add a link to the home page from that internal page. When the visitor clicks on that link, she is brought within the context of the frames.

However, simply adding a link to the home page presents yet another problem. If the visitor had already been viewing that page within the context of the frames and then clicks on the link to the home page, a new set of frames will be created in addition to the frames already being used. In order to solve this problem, you have to use the TARGET = “_top” command in the link, i.e. the HTML code for the link would be something like

-==-

Wrapping things up:

As I mentioned earlier, there is also an advantage to using frames. Since most Internet users are now using frames enabled browsers, it means that not many people are going to know what’s present in your NOFRAMES tag. This allows you the repeat your keywords a few more times in the NOFRAMES than what you could have done if you were writing a page which humans would also see (of course, don’t repeat the keywords too many times – that can cause your web site to be penalized for spamming). You can also avoid using tables, graphics etc. which you would otherwise need to use if humans would also view that page. However, it is debatable whether this small advantage is sufficient to justify using frames.

Article by Sumantra Roy. Sumantra is one of the most respected and recognized search engine positioning specialists on the Internet. For more articles on search engine placement, subscribe to his 1st Search Ranking Newsletter by sending a blank email to 1stSearchRanking.999.99@optinpro.com or by going to http://www.1stSearchRanking.net
]]> http://www.webpronews.com/frames-and-search-engines-2003-07/feed 0 How do You Optimize a Web Site that Uses Frames and Server-Side-Includes? http://www.webpronews.com/how-do-you-optimize-a-web-site-that-uses-frames-and-serversideincludes-2003-05 http://www.webpronews.com/how-do-you-optimize-a-web-site-that-uses-frames-and-serversideincludes-2003-05#comments Wed, 21 May 2003 17:18:32 +0000 Jim Hedger http://www.webpronews.com/?p=4327 Dear Jim,
“When creating things like a text menu with all the main links at the bottom of each page, does it create a problem for the spiders if you use server side includes? Can the spider find the links in that include page? I have a lot of stuff like the menu that are on every page and would like to put it into an SSI page to simplify maintenance.”

Jim:
We’ve had no problems with SSI and search engine spiders. StepForth’s main site uses includes and the time saved is incredable. Spiders generally perceive information the way it is displayed in common web browsers. A general rule of thumb is, if the user can see it, the spider can see it. This rule does not apply to images or FLASH driven sites but tends to apply to sites using SSI.

MS:
Do Search engines have problems with frames? My site uses them.

Jim:
This is a yes and no answer. Yes, search engines have problems with FRAME based sites but newer search engines should follow the URL paths in the foundation (frame-set). Whenever we get a FRAME based site, we use tags. That way we are certain spiders will read and record relevant information. (This also presents an opportunity to offer keyword enriched text that may read oddly to human-users but will make perfect sense to a spider).

MS:
I have heard that it is important to have links back to the main page from other pages on the site. These links act as “votes” to the SE. Is this true? Does it matter the form of the links – relative vs. absolute? Is index.htm considered the same as http://www.mysite.com/index.htm or http://www.mysite.com/?

Jim:
The concept of links acting as “votes” comes from Google’s page-rank explanation page. Newer search tools tend to use some form of relative topic clustering when determining what sites are aligned with which keyword phrases. One of the ways of determining sites that share a topical relationship is by following links back and forth from site to site and within sites. It is a good idea to place a link on each page back to your index page in order to provide a path for spiders to follow that will always lead them back to your most important page, the index page, (which is seen as the default regardless of whether you write www.mysite.com./index.html, or www.mysite.com) Internal links do not count as “votes” on Google but we suspect they have a limited weight on AlltheWeb.com (now owned by Overture). Nevertheless, adding this link to the text-based navigation link is a good idea as it provides human-users and search engine spiders with a path back to the start. (one tip though… I have banned the use of the word “HOME” in this office. You should do that in yours as well. Use the words INDEX, FRONT, or START in place of HOME. home is one of the ten most used words on the Internet and is therefore useless from an optimization standpoint.)

I hope these answers help,
- Jim

Jim Hedger is the SEO Manager of StepForth Search Engine Placement Inc. Based in Victoria, BC, Canada, StepForth is the result of the consolidation of BraveArt Website Management, Promotion Experts, and Phoenix Creative Works, and has provided professional search engine placement and management services since 1997. http://www.stepforth.com/ Tel – 250-385-1190 Toll Free – 877-385-5526 Fax – 250-385-1198
]]> http://www.webpronews.com/how-do-you-optimize-a-web-site-that-uses-frames-and-serversideincludes-2003-05/feed 0 SEO Corner – Frames, JavaScript and Search Engines http://www.webpronews.com/seo-corner-frames-javascript-and-search-engines-2003-05 http://www.webpronews.com/seo-corner-frames-javascript-and-search-engines-2003-05#comments Wed, 14 May 2003 19:32:30 +0000 Shari Thurow http://www.webpronews.com/?p=4210 Question: My site has frames and JavaScript. How can I tell if it is being fully seen/indexed by the search engines?

Shari’s Answer:

I am going to answer this question in 3 parts. Part 1 will address how to tell if your site is being fully indexed by all of the search engines, which applies to all sites. Part 2 will address frames and the search engines. And Part 3 will address JavaScript and the search engines.

Part 1: Is your site indexed?

To determine whether or not your site is in a search engine index, you will need to perform an individual search on each of the major search engines.

To see if your web pages have been added or deleted from a search engine, go to each of the search engines listed below and type in the string listed below the search engine name. Replace “companyname.com” with your domain name.

AltaVista
url:companyname.com

Google*
site:companyname.com companyname.com

Fast Search
url.all:www.companyname.com

Inktomi
Domain:companyname.com

Since there is no “pure” search engine for Inktomi, I like to use Position Technology’s Inktomi search at:

http://search.positiontech.com/InktomiSearch/PositionTechSearch.jsp

(*Note: there is a space between the two domains in the Google query.)

If you have time, and if you are interested, compare the search results at the different search engines. For example, since Lycos currently uses FAST Search, I like to compare the data from an AlltheWeb.com inquiry and a Lycos inquiry. Likewise, the results from AOL Search (which currently uses Google) are quite different from Google search results.

Part 2: Search engines and frames

One misconception about search-engine friendly web site design is the use of frames. At numerous web site design, search engine optimization, and online marketing conferences, I constantly hear speakers making blanket statements to “never use frames” when designing search-engine friendly sites.

Most of the search engines can follow the links inside of a frameset layout.

However, there is still the issue of frames abuse.

Many unethical search engine marketers like to use hidden framesets, often called envelope pages, to stuff keywords in a web pages, keywords that search engines can see but the target audience cannot see (most of the time). They stuffed words inside of the <noframes> and <noscript> tags, hoping to boost search engine visibility.

The result? Search engine engineers caught on very quickly. Now search engines either ignore or demote the keywords found in these tags. So, in terms of search engine positioning, they are practically useless.

Pros and cons of frames

One of the first web site designs I ever created was done in frames. It was a real estate site, and the frameset layout was a logical choice, given the size of the web site. The site had no problems ranking well in the search engines for two reasons:

The site was fully navigational and search-engine friendly without the frameset layout, and There were only two frames, and the main content frame still looked fine without the other frame.

First and most importantly, the content inside of the main frame must be written with keyword-rich text, since that is the frame that contains the information that is most important to the search engines and your site’s visitors. All main content frame pages must contain unique title tags, meta tags, alternative text (when applicable), anchor text, and so forth.

Never assume the search engines are only going to index the page that contains instructions for the frameset layout. Search engines will index every page they can access.

Second, the site had a secondary navigation — text links. I always create sets of text links that correspond to sets of navigation buttons. The main content frame always had a set of navigation links at the bottom of a page and embedded links, when applicable.

Third, if a main content page was the only page that ranked well in the search engines, the still looked aesthetically pleasing without the other frame.

What ended up happening with this site? The web site owner eventually abandoned the frameset layout for an unframed site. Result? More traffic and higher search engine positions.

Frames and usability

Frameset designs pose multiple problems. Sure, they can be search engine friendly and rank well. I have designed many frameset designs whose pages rank well, delivering quality and consistent traffic over time. But it doesn’t mean the frameset design is optimal. It just means that it can deliver quality traffic.

When you design and write a site, always design and write primarily for your end users, not the search engines because the search engines won’t purchase thousands or millions of dollars of your products and services. Your target audience will. A site should always be optimized for your target audience first, search engines second.

If a site is properly optimized for “human” usability, the site is often search engine friendly by default.

Unfortunately, usability experts continually do not recommend frameset designs. And they don’t make that recommendation because they like making blanket statements. They test the effectiveness of the framed and unframed layouts.

I, too, have tested the effectiveness of the framed and unframed versions of the sites I’ve designed. And, without exception, the unframed design always gets higher traffic and higher conversions. I can attribute the higher traffic and conversions to the removal of the frameset because it’s the only attribute that I changed in the design.

I’m not talking about anecdotal evidence (“Well, my site ranks in the top 10 with a framed design….”). Usability experts and people like me do quality testing to verify our recommendations. We test our results over a specific time period, measuring only a single variable at a time. That is really the only way to get reliable data.

Frames solution

Give your end users the option of navigating your site in the framed and unframed versions. Let your target audience determine the most effective layout.

If you find that your site visitors prefer the framed design, then use that design. If you find they prefer the unframed design, then use that one. You might discover that the unframed design is more effective.

If you are in a situation where you absolutely must have a frameset layout, then you will have to employ a JavaScript workaround on every page of your site, which, quite frankly, is quite time consuming.

My honest opinion? The time it takes to create the frames workaround can be better spent in writing quality content that your target audience wishes to read.

Search engines and frames conclusion

Usability experts, web site designers, and search engine marketers consistently state that end users prefer an unframed web site design to a framed site design. Many of them, particularly the usability experts, do not make blanket statements because they are narcissistic. They genuinely test the effectiveness of both types of designs and ultimately recommend the one that is best for the audience.

If you find that a frameset layout works for you, then by all means, use it. However, don’t be afraid to test whether or not your audience prefers the unframed version of your site. You will probably see an increase in traffic and corresponding sales.

Shari Thurow is Marketing Director at Grantastic Designs, Inc., a full-service search engine marketing, web and graphic design firm. This article is excerpted from her book, Search Engine Visibility (http://www.searchenginesbook.com) published in January 2003 by New Riders Publishing Co. Shari can be reached at shari@grantasticdesigns.com.

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]]> http://www.webpronews.com/seo-corner-frames-javascript-and-search-engines-2003-05/feed 6 Ross Dunn Answers SEO Questions http://www.webpronews.com/ross-dunn-answers-seo-questions-2003-05 http://www.webpronews.com/ross-dunn-answers-seo-questions-2003-05#comments Tue, 06 May 2003 19:25:52 +0000 Ross Dunn http://www.webpronews.com/?p=4097 For over six years, Ross Dunn and StepForth Placement have provided search engine optimization and placement services to a wide array of businesses and organizations. The staff at StepForth are experts in the fields of search engine marketing, search engine friendly design and, of course, search engine placement. They also follow the business of search engines like sports fans follow the playoffs. They welcome questions relating to the search engine industry and articles they have written.

If you have a question for Ross, email him at advice@stepforth.com.

Answers by Ross and the StepForth Team:
Basic SEO Questions & Answers
How do You Optimize a Web Site that Uses Frames and Server-Side-Includes?
Elevating PageRank and Choosing a Keyword Focus
Search Engines vs. Database-Driven Websites – Optimizing PHP
Search Engine Optimization and Page Templating

Articles by Ross and the StepForth Team:
Emergency Marketing Response: The SARS Outbreak And Toronto Based Clients
Portal Websites – SEO SPAM Or Legitimate Search Engine Placement Tactic?
10 Minute Search Engine Optimization
Inspecting Your Web Site For Spam
Working Well With Your Search Engine Optimization Firm
How to Switch Hosting Providers During Your Search Engine Campaign

Ross Dunn is the CEO and founder of StepForth Search Engine Placement Inc., an SEO firm that has been providing expert services since 1997. Rosss considerable experience in the world of search has made him a respected writer for countless publications and an SEO consultant for small business and Fortune 500 web properties.
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