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13 Comments
My question
I'd like to preface this by thanking the author for shedding some light on this subject. The concept seems to make sense. However, I there is one thing I still don't understand about this entire situation.
How does Google know the difference between a link that was paid for privately between webmasters and a link that was posted free-of-charge? I understand that it's fairly easy to spot TLA links, but how can they tell if there are no scripts involved or code that gives it away (assuming they're not using gmail to set up and g-checkouts to facilitate the transaction)?
Interesting discussion but
Interesting discussion but let me add something more spicy to it. I am not favoring Google or anything but if you carefully read Google's quality guidelines and webmaster guidelines, you will be surprised to know that Google nowhere says you should not be earning by putting banners and text links on your website. Infact they go even further to say that, they understand that websites need to earn from such advertising.
There is an interesting article worth reading about Google pagerank and paid links
Google Loophole For Paid Links
I see nothing wrong with this and give credit to the person who came up with it. First of all, Google's AdWords program is just another form of paid links anyway. If a webmaster can find a way to get more traffic to his site by paying a little money out in advertising, why not? Who died and made Google boss anyway?
In reply: Google's Loophole
I agree, Google's AdWords is another form of paid links, however does it improve your PR ranking if you have Google's AdWords verses some website that doesn't? I believe buying a PR ranking is wrong, but I don't find placing an Ad on another site is wrong. The PR system should be fair for all not just the ones who have a huge budget. If a company or website even Christian in nature decides to buy a "feature link" in a directory for the purpose of attracting more traffic but wouldn't improve a PR ranking, I find no problem with that. A code or something could ID it as a legit paid link, google's bot could ID it as such, then it wouldn't be caculated into the PR formula. Thus, no punishment such as reduced ranking, nor helping a page rank improve and yet attract more traffic using paid links.
This I think would work better than just be for paid links or just being against paid links. But Google might be doing a Microsoft with their AdWorks which of course benefits them. Compeition would deminish profits for Google, thus, the loophole.
Slow News Day?
I am in agreement with many here; Yahoo and Google appear to be playing with web site owners in the paid link areas. Getting around something that will certainly be countered at the SE's next meeting adds to the Web Pro News ink but, when it comes down to it, who really cares? Like newspapers long ago, the SE's make their money off ads, not subscriptions.
When both SE's can accept my search word - Oxford University - and not display footwear links, then that will be something for WPN to write about.
Why bother?
Why would I bother with such a convoluted and time consuming way to try to get around paid links? There are so many ways that you can legitimately pay someone to help you get backlinks that have way more power, for far less of a time commitment.
It is just silly to devise a complex workaround when a straight shot exists in more than one avenue already.
too much credit
I normally delete all the spam I get from webpronews, but I actually read some of this. I think you people give entirely too much power to google.
The only way google is finding out about paid links is from people advertising them and then the snitches go and tell on them.
Besides, when the hell did google create the rules for the internet? When they start caring about my bottom line, I might give a crap about all their idiotic 'rules'.
Google Loophole
andy does a great job explaining the loophole...and its been used by black hatters for some time so well see what happens.
http://seokinetics.com
http://hypworks.com/blog/
http://seowordpressninja.com
It is a little complicated
Hi Jason
It is a little complicated, but there isn't anything really sinister about it, and it is something that actually happens naturally with good content.
I have always advocated high editorial standards with paid review content. It has to stand on its own, and get high editorial praise.
The blocked reviews don't pass any juice, though they can rank because they are dangling pages that Google just can't index, just like a terrible flash site in many ways.
As a dangling page they also might not accumulate juice in the same way as a page that is part of the iteration process, but that is something hard to quantify.
A lot of it boils down to a very distinct editorial process such as when WPM select articles for syndication. As an example I did highlight one of my reviews that was a featured article on WPN sister site SearchNewz.
That is a very prominent example, but syndication happens on all blogs whether you like it or not, in the for of splogs and scrapers.
The same happens with social media and social networks which allow you to resyndicate your feed.
Linking through to such profiles is a natural occurance
As with all naturally occuring phenomenens on the web, there are ways to encourage it, and sharing blog content is effectively the same as article marketing, only you have the ability to also provide graphical elements.
This certainly doesn't rely on a single occurance of an article on my domain ranking, I always have the alternative of a duplicate content page ranking instead (and I do nofollow all outgoing links on those pages with my nofollow those dupes plugin)
Ultimately good content will find a way to be indexed, and if it also contains useful links, those links are likely to remain.
With my syndicated content I allow modifications, thus if someone chose to add nofollow to any links to an advertiser that would be their choice in an editorial capacity - it is pure editorial, I wouldn't suggest paying someone to syndicate my content.
There are a few extra possibilites I haven't yet discussed, but I need to get those more formalized before writing about them.
p.s. for some reason the comment system was rejecting "Andy Beard"
dangling pages
http://andybeard.eu/2007/11/seo-linking-gotchas-even-the-pros-make.html
where Matt Cutts first talks about NoIndex pages:
Matt Cutts: A NoIndex page can accumulate PageRank, because the links are still followed outwards from a NoIndex page.
Eric Enge: So, it can accumulate and pass PageRank.
Matt Cutts: Right, and it will still accumulate PageRank, but it won't be showing in our Index. So, I wouldn't make a NoIndex page that itself is a dead end. You can make a NoIndex page that has links to lots of other pages.
A little later you point to the definition of dangling links:
"Dangling links are simply links that point to any page with no outgoing links. They affect the model because it is not clear where their weight should be distributed, and there are a large number of them. Often these dangling links are simply pages that we have not downloaded yet……….Because dangling links do not affect the ranking of any other page directly, we simply remove them from the system until all the PageRanks are calculated. After all the PageRanks are calculated they can be added back in without affecting things significantly." - extract from the original PageRank paper by Google’s founders, Sergey Brin and Lawrence Page.
which you clarify with a brief explanation:
Whilst I haven't delved into the maths (and probably couldn't through lack of information and lack of knowledge), it also seems to me that at the time the pages are taken out of the cyclic calculation, a percentage of the link value can still be taken with them.
Thus though the site for cyclic calculations will be just 2 pages, the link from A to B might only transfer 1/6 of the juice on each cycle.
So am I misinterpreting that to mean there is some link juice passed from dangling pages? If there's no juice passed and no way to make it pass juice, then what's the point? Or have I just flubbed this up completely?
Another way of describing it
If you use nofollow on links, then the page is indexed, and at least theoretically the links are not meant to pass any juice.
If you use robots.txt to block a page from being indexed, it is a bit like a black hole.
Scientists know black holes exist and can even point in their direction, identifying their existance. They could probably give them a name. They wouldn't know what happens to an object that passes into a black hole.
The page can still appear in search results based on whatever offsite linking factors used to rank pages.
As an example, I have some of my affiliate link redirects on my domain only blocked by robots.txt, and those links are indexed
http://www.google.com/search?q=andybeard.eu%2FRecommends%2FSEO_Book.html
I should really stick nofollow on all of those links to not waste juice. Just saying that is controversial in SEO circles as there are those that think you shouldn't use nofollow for anything, and that you can't leak juice.
Just think of how many "secret" download locations you can find in Google that are supposedly blocked by robots.txt
If you use meta robots noindex, then it is a bit like a time portal.
Whilst people might point to it, it won't appear in a search index. It can however still pass juice as it will still be spidered.
In human terms I suppose this is like a dark secret room or tunnel. You can feel your way around inside it, and even find the exit, but you can't see it, and you have been told not to tell anyone about it.
A page that has in addition meta index nofollow won't appear in search results, but will still soak up juice which is handled by the random surfer dampening factor and passed on to a random page in the interweb.
This for a human is a dark secret cave with no exit
If people link to a page that is blocked by robots.txt, the juice is not being used effectively and can't flow to other pages. However long term it is possible to change the permalink, and redirect the juice to other pages that provide more of an overview for the topic.
this is actually a very natural occurance, becuase whilst you might write about a company once as a paid review, or even a free article, you are more likely to write an update if situations change - this is especially true if you review a service and they make changes based upon that feedback. As an example I wrote a review of Volusion and they since that time added support for Aweber.
If I subsequently write a 3rd post, then the ideal landing page for both search results and referrals might be a specially created page that then links to all 3 documents, as I described in this post.
http://andybeard.eu/2007/11/optimizing-html-links.html
Some might look at playing around with 301 redirects as a little greyhat, but the search engines would see the same as a user, and a user would have a better experience.
It is actually timely to point out how this is now reflacted in my own search results.
http://www.google.com/search?q=wordpress+seo&start=10
From Europe I am seeing 11th or 12th most of the time, from the USA I have been told 9th at times.
All that has happened so far is no loss of ranking, and the snippet has disappeared.
Soon I will probably get a double listing as the version on Searchnewz will also rank
hmmm...
Well, we'll see what kind of positive effect this may have for users on the net as the coming weeks and months unfold. I would expect google to catch this eventually and create some crazy code to put a stop to it. How I disdain google!
The only loophole in this
The only loophole in this loophole is that if Google follows Disallow as it should then the page would actually be removed completely from the index. Not to mention your robots.txt makes for a good read to see where your paid reviews are...
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